Self Service Till Checkout Cameras- Is the Close Surveillance they force on us even Legal ?

Mutton_Geoff

This documentary on the scale of shoplifting in the UK is eye opening ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbBYK51eEM

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Mutton_Geoff said:

This documentary on the scale of shoplifting in the UK is eye opening ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QbBYK51eEM

Unfortunately the government gave away a lot of resources during Covid and most of that money ended up in the hands of the super, super rich which is now giving them the ability to fleece the middle classes resulting in a lot less money for public services.

3 largest shareholders of Tesco are trillion dollar US asset management companies, the Aldi bothers are among the very top richest people in the world, if the super, super rich put more back in rather hiding their wealth in tax havens maybe societies would be in a better place. 

molerat

My biggest moan about my local Lidl is ............ that they don't have self service tills.  Way quicker than waiting behind a bunch of people paying with cash and insisting on having a conversation with the check out operator.  Even better self scan with a gun or my mobile.  I remember in Tesco during the plague the big queues waiting for a manned checkout with me going straight to the empty gun checkout.  And when the guns went down in Asda I just opened the app on my mobile and did my shopping that way.

[Deleted User]

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

3 largest shareholders of Tesco are trillion dollar US asset management companies,

Of which many of us are likely invested in, one way or another.

Second largest private employer in the UK (after Compass Group) operating on a 3% margin, contributing massively to UK plc. I've never understood why people are so hostile towards them...

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

[Deleted User] said:

Of which many of us are likely invested in, one way or another.

Second largest private employer in the UK (after Compass Group) operating on a 3% margin, contributing massively to UK plc. I've never understood why people are so hostile towards them...

I'm not necessarily hostile to them, their margin allows their scale and reduces competition emerging, that's one of the cornerstones of their ability to survive.

Haven't seen much on Tesco but Morrisons has been loaded with debt and are cutting 6000 staff, Sainsburys are cutting 3000 staff after reporting strong trading in 23/24, our two local Coop stores have hardly any staff at all (given the prices they charge it's very poor indeed), Next are on the path to record profits but cutting staff, BP with record profits but cutting staff. 

In terms of what Tesco contribute it would be interesting to see how that measures up against what was contributed  say 30 years ago by the thousands of small business who no longer exist due to the supermarket culture and in general the expansion of very large businesses dominating markets via scale.  

MattMattMattUK

Supermarkets generally operate with a 3-5% margin, so regardless of scale there is little scope to carry dead weight or reduce prices. We have the cheapest food in the EU, for comparable quality cheapest in most of the advanced economy, a similar weekly shop in France, Germany, Norway, Australia or Canada is considerably more expensive, anywhere from 50-100% more expensive. In the US whilst one can buy lower quality food for less than in the UK, comparable quality food to what is available in the UK would cost 3-5 times what it costs here depending on where in the US one is. 

born_again

Zentex said:

I was forced into an Aldi self checkout as they would not open a till for any of us (despite telling us when first introduced , all we had to was ask for a manned checkout till to be opened if we wanted one to use) , their was a big queue behind me waiting. 
I had a lot of shopping, it took me ages, I had to twice get help, the £20 note would not go in for 10 attempts and to top it off I was watched by Big Brother at the till the whole time without my explicit consent. I have known they have ceiling cameras and am fine with this but this was the first time I saw myself on a big screen above the checkout till, which I found very intrusive indeed.
Do Supermarkets have to warn people they are being surveilled in writing anywhere in the Store? Does this infringe our civil rights to anonymity? By law would they have to open a till if you do not give consent to be closely surveilled at a self service till ? Does anybody know the law around all of this please?
I resented the whole experience and was not expecting to be told it was self service or nothing ! 
When I voiced my dissatisfaction again after scanning over them not opening a till for the big line of customers behind me  I was warned by a very  stressed shop assistant I would be banned by from the store if I continued
I have never been treated so badly in any supermarket in the country.
Is there any way the People can challenge the shops over being forced to scan dozens of items at 5X the time it takes them to do it all? I am a busy person I do NOT have time to scan my own shopping and forcing others to wait a very long time to get to the till. I would love a consumer backlash which is effective to get them to change back to at least 70% manned tills open, any chance of this happening?

You do realise that supermarkets have camera's throughout the store. So from the point you walk in to exiting the store you are on camera. Just like about every other store.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

MattMattMattUK said:

Supermarkets generally operate with a 3-5% margin, so regardless of scale there is little scope to carry dead weight or reduce prices. We have the cheapest food in the EU, for comparable quality cheapest in most of the advanced economy, a similar weekly shop in France, Germany, Norway, Australia or Canada is considerably more expensive, anywhere from 50-100% more expensive. In the US whilst one can buy lower quality food for less than in the UK, comparable quality food to what is available in the UK would cost 3-5 times what it costs here depending on where in the US one is. 

And it is that margin that prevents you from opening a grocery store and taking custom away from the big companies, or more accurately that is why the number of greengrocers, butchers, fishmongers and off licences have declined. Places where if there wasn't service you wouldn't have to go far to find another acting differently.

Ideally we should pay more and consume less but that wouldn't be profitable for these companies who employ certain tactics to persuade our weak minds to indulge in an environment that has become normalised resulting in younger generations knowing no different, the wider implication is the more we consume the more harm we do to our environment. 

The cheap food isn't to benefit us, most of which is poor quality rubbish any way (yes I agree not as bad as the US but not being as bad as somewhere else doesn't mean it is good), it's to benefit the companies churning through volume so they can generate a significant profit that used to go to lots of smaller independent businesses who were more ordinary people earning a crust and putting a bit of money in the pot for the services that benefit everyone. 

Regarding food prices in Europe, Google links near the top, this was 2023 for staples but prices are comparatively similar: 

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/how-the-uk-compares-to-europe-for-staple-food-prices-2814299?srsltid=AfmBOor6ZEozlfbm7BBKt5EEBCp1Xx22nCzxKSrCkqkbdO3kJi4w99FV

2023 article on non-staple here and we sit near the middle with nowhere near 100% more expensive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65833619

Many variables, including income levels, so probably hard to pinpoint exactly.

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Sainsburys are cutting 3000 staff after reporting strong trading in 23/24, 

That type of headline, while alarming (especially the way it was reported in the news earlier in the week), has to be considered in rather more detail as there can be nuances around the total impact.

AIUI, Sainsbury's are reducing staff because they are closing their Sainsbury's Cafe outlets, pizza counters and patisserie counters.  These are all high-service parts of the Sainsbury's retail offering.  Reading between the lines, it is a statement by Sainsbury's to focus on their core product (selling low-cost stuff at high volume, low margin) and not carrying the burden of high-staff for the high-service elements of the current business.

Those empty Sainsbury's Cafe outlets will not simply sit empty but will likely be re-purposed to franchised food outlets such as Costa Coffee, Starbucks, Harris + Hoole or whoever bids for the estate.  This non-Sainsbury branded outlet can probably leverage higher prices as a "premium" catering offering than Sainsbury's Cafe which is likely constrained by the "value" positioning of the Sainsbury's brand and difficulty moving away from the traditional "builder's breakfast" that has been offered.  (I happen to like the Sainsbury's breakfast, but that is another thing all together - plus, since COVID, I travel to sites far less and therefore eat far fewer Sainsbury's breakfasts.  My trade probably makes no impact, but the collective change does.)

Will it make news headlines when those vacant Sainsbury's Cafe outlets reopen (and create jobs) under whichever franchise brand takes the floorspace?

The changes to the pizza counters and the patisserie are different in that the floorspace released will likely be turned to more low-cost stuff sold at high volume and low margin.  This will not need additional staff and the jobs will not be so obviously replaced.

It is actually difficult for a business to take action when trading is strong, rather than inaction and waiting until it is too late and business failure becomes inevitable.  Just look at the big names that have gone and did so after repeated in-out of liquidations.

MattMattMattUK

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Supermarkets generally operate with a 3-5% margin, so regardless of scale there is little scope to carry dead weight or reduce prices. We have the cheapest food in the EU, for comparable quality cheapest in most of the advanced economy, a similar weekly shop in France, Germany, Norway, Australia or Canada is considerably more expensive, anywhere from 50-100% more expensive. In the US whilst one can buy lower quality food for less than in the UK, comparable quality food to what is available in the UK would cost 3-5 times what it costs here depending on where in the US one is. 

And it is that margin that prevents you from opening a grocery store and taking custom away from the big companies, or more accurately that is why the number of greengrocers, butchers, fishmongers and off licences have declined. Places where if there wasn't service you wouldn't have to go far to find another acting differently.

Ideally we should pay more and consume less but that wouldn't be profitable for these companies who employ certain tactics to persuade our weak minds to indulge in an environment that has become normalised resulting in younger generations knowing no different, the wider implication is the more we consume the more harm we do to our environment. 

The cheap food isn't to benefit us, most of which is poor quality rubbish any way (yes I agree not as bad as the US but not being as bad as somewhere else doesn't mean it is good), it's to benefit the companies churning through volume so they can generate a significant profit that used to go to lots of smaller independent businesses who were more ordinary people earning a crust and putting a bit of money in the pot for the services that benefit everyone. 

Regarding food prices in Europe, Google links near the top, this was 2023 for staples but prices are comparatively similar: 

https://inews.co.uk/news/world/how-the-uk-compares-to-europe-for-staple-food-prices-2814299?srsltid=AfmBOor6ZEozlfbm7BBKt5EEBCp1Xx22nCzxKSrCkqkbdO3kJi4w99FV

2023 article on non-staple here and we sit near the middle with nowhere near 100% more expensive

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65833619

Many variables, including income levels, so probably hard to pinpoint exactly.

There are several issues with those links and the data that they are based on. The first being that they have a very odd basket choice, certainly not reflective of consumption patterns. The second is that they specifically exclude Aldi and Lidl in the UK, but include them in costs for other countries. The third is that they exclude discounts offered in UK supermarkets, both promotional and to members, but again include those in other countries. The fourth is that in the UK they also factored in small store types such as Tesco Express, Sainsbury's Local etc. and treated them as supermarkets where there is not really a directly comparable option in most of Europe, so they were excluded from the comparison data for the other countries. 

I would say that those issues make the data in those articles entirely irrelevant, as it is not even comparing like for like.