RTS shutdown and Restricted meters.

Spider_Ham

Hello

I have a restricted RTS meter with 3 rates being recorded, These are for Day, Night and Heating. I have been getting letters regarding the shut down of the RTS and how this will affect my meter. I have been speaking to Scottish power my energy suppler checking if I could keep the same tariff if I move to a smart meter. I am on the Economy 2000 tariff and have wet electric heating installed in my flat. This uses power thought out the day apart from three 2 hour periods during the day.

Scottish power have confirmed that NO smart meter can support this tariff. I would have to either move to Economy 7 or change my type of heating. The latter will not happen I as I am a tenant. Even if I move to Economy 7, my monthly bills could double due to not having a separate rate for my heating. It seems electricity companies and Ofgem have not considered the thousands of homes on restricted meters like mine for the RTS shutdown and the impact it could have to customers.

For the time being I will be sticking with the RTS meter despite the RTS shutdown.

QrizB

Wet electric heating is a niche option, popular with landlords (as there's no need for an annual gas safety check) but expensive for tenants.

You could move supplier, to one that offers a more suitable smart tariff. OVO for example?

What are you paying for the three rates on your current tariff?

Spider_Ham

Unfortunately I have two MPAN numbers and energy companies like OVO will not touch my supply. The only other suppler I found who would take two MPAN's was EDF but they were a lot more expensive than Scottish Powers hence why I have stayed with them.

This is my tariff below:

• Electricity Day Consumption Charge 34.500p
• Electricity Night Consumption Charge 16.426p
• Electricity Heat Consumption Charge 14.908p
• Standing charge 65.04p

QrizB

At least in principle, replacing your current metering arrangement with a single smart meter would let you get rid of your second MPAN. The challenge then would be finding a suitable tariff elsewhere.

It's been reported that you can get Economy 10 with a smart meter, which would give you three cheaper periods a day in a similar fashion to your current tariff. I think @Ildhund mentioned some suppliers in a recent post?

QrizB

I've just noticed that Octopus have changed their rules for Cosy Octopus. You can have it with a heat pump or an electric boiler.

https://octopus.energy/smart/cosy-octopus/

In my region the tariff is:

• Day rate: 26.35p / kWh
• Cosy rate (04:00 - 07:00, 13:00 - 16:00 & 22:00 - 00:00): 12.92p / kWh
• Peak rate (16:00 - 19:00):39.53p / kWh
• Standing charge: 62.22p / day

The day rate is cheaper than your current tariff, the cosy (night, but three periods) is cheaper, and the peak rate isn't much more expensive.

Could that work for you?

Ildhund

I may have mentioned that OVO have for a year or two been offering smart Economy 10 plans in at least some regions, specifically to cater for customers currently on complex, RTS-controlled tariffs like THTC and Superdeal. The biggest difference is the removal of the separately-metered 24-hour heating circuit, which means customers will have to make major changes, to lifestyle or hardware or both. The introduction wasn't without its challenges, requiring new arrangements for meter configuration and especially for billing, but I think most of the wrinkles have now been ironed out.

Many of those having to switch away from the old systems are set in their ways and resistent to change, often in areas with spotty WAN coverage like the Highlands and Islands of Scotland. There are almost as many different setups as there are installations, so no one-size-fits-all solution. On top of these complexities, there is a sorry lack of informed advice available. I honestly don't know how best to tackle this, but I do feel it's not right just to blame the supplier for all the hiccups that arise. OVO are finding themselves going to enormous expense to rescue customers from the iron grip of RTS, only to see customers take the first opportunity to change supplier. This whole question is worthy of its own discussion divorced from individual cases.

Rosie1001

But what If people like me can’t afford to change their storage heaters , I have not got gas to change to 

I can’t afford  lift floors etc to fit a costly new system , im On minimum wage 

we can fly a rocket into space , but can’t make a suitable meter or system so help thousands of customers 

No one is saying it’s all the suppliers fault but they are a huge factor  in it 

Scot_39

Rosie1001 said:

But what If people like me can’t afford to change their storage heaters , I have not got gas to change to 

I can’t afford  lift floors etc to fit a costly new system , im On minimum wage 

we can fly a rocket into space , but can’t make a suitable meter or system so help thousands of customers 

No one is saying it’s all the suppliers fault but they are a huge factor  in it 

We can.  We even did.  Meters like the 7 port Liberty series could switch 3 or 4 home circuits and bill each separately - the smets1 114 iirc even specifically mentioned thtc support.  There was even a smets2 version (116 ???)

Did any uk supllier ever fit ??

It was Ofgems weaknesses on understanding and mandating  suppiers support the complex needs of all electric - that has gotten us where we are.

And suppliers incompetence - through lack of investment in training and preperation I suspect - that sees some still struggle even with basic E7 in recent years (there was at least 2 user posting recently about BG still unable to get e7 installs working)

Without that mandatory support - it's arguably just there was no real incentive. 

Everyone believed smart would do it and we'll ahead of rts shutdown (the original roll out was meant to be complete many years ago - were not that far over half way iirc) - that the BBC have been warning about for best part of 20 years now.  Many believed that everyone would be on variable 1/2 hr billing - even killing off likes of economy 7.


Even oldest nsh will work on tariffs like e10.

I've had digital e10 and now smart e10 since kicked off rts several years ago.  My heaters are lossy manual dial regulated - c25+ year old - installed as built. 

[I got a quote for at time cheaper non rf Quantu pm hhr nsh for move to e7 -  pre energy crisis price spikes and churned the numbers - the over 20 year pay back o tariff savings at time made me shelf plans].


Likes of Ovo and SP dithered for ages on more complex rts replacements.  Found post on Ovos thtc --> e10 roll out apparently didn't start in earnest until last Aug/ Sep according to one users post on their forum - 4-5 months after the previous 2024 planned LW cut off (already an extension).

And it's not even a direct like for like replacement.

For many new deals like Octopus Snug - with just 1 hour in the afternoon as a boost - might well be enough.

And given the off peak rate is almost half my e10 rate - it's certainly looking like could even save enough in the night and afternoon 2 slots to pay for a bit of plug in at the again cheaper than my e10 day rate late in evening to replace my third off peak / charge slot.

Now if they did Cosy for nsh with alcs - much more like my e10 hours.

Ildhund

Scot_39 said:

Likes of Ovo and SP dithered for ages on more complex rts replacements.  Found post on Ovos thtc --> e10 roll out apparently didn't start in earnest until last Aug/ Sep according to one users post on their forum - 4-5 months after the previous 2024 planned LW cut off (already an extension).

SSE started installing smart meters for THTC customers long before OVO took them over. Sadly, they made a hash of it (one reason why they abandoned the sinking ship, I suspect), and OVO started picking up the pieces. Some of the SSE refugees in the Southern region became guineapigs for the Economy 10 plans OVO were working on, with hilariously mixed results, lots of red faces and many angry customers. This was in the summer of 2023, so a year earlier than your source claimed. What started happening in August 2024 was the replacement of THTC systems by specially-designed and -configured SMETS2 meters. This replacement is proceeding apace, with much being learned along the way.  

Qyburn

The OP has wet heating and an electric boiler. An off peak tariff is unlikely to be suitable.

QrizB

Qyburn said:

The OP has wet heating and an electric boiler. An off peak tariff is unlikely to be suitable.

OP is currently on Scottish Power's "Economy 2000", a tariff "intended for medium capacity storage boilers" per this page. It's intended for wet systems with "sufficient thermal store to supply space (and possibly water) heating requirements for 2 hours".

Depending on exactly how miuch storage capacity the OP's system has,Cosy Octopus or a switch to OVO and their Economy 10 (both of which have 10 hours of off-peak electricity, in three blocks of 3 or 4 hours) might well work out for them.

There's another poster here who has successfully run an electric combi boiler (so no storage capacity other than the system volume) on E10 and (after a pretty grim winter) has switched to Cosy.

Edit to add:

Spider_Ham said:

Scottish power have confirmed that NO smart meter can support this tariff.

Scottish Power are sort-of correct. Your current tariff is in effect two separate supplies; one for your heating (that switches on and off six times a day) plus another one for everything else (which is always live but switches between a day and night tariff).

They *could* implement this but I think it would need two separate smart meters, one for the heating and one for everything else.