RTS shutdown and Restricted meters.

Rocksie68

Switching from Economy 2000 & RTS Meters – My Experience

I wanted to share my experience in case it helps others in a similar situation. I have a radio tele-switch (RTS) meter installed in my flat as part of the Economy 2000 tariff, and I also have a Thermaflow combi boiler since my home is fully electric.

The issue I faced was that Scottish Power significantly increased the off-peak rates, making my energy bills much higher. I tried to switch to another provider, but no other company would accept my meter because it was a 3-rate meter.

After a long battle—including an appeal process—Scottish Power initially claimed my property was not eligible for a single-rate smart meter due to a lack of mobile signal. However, this was untrue, as the communal electricity supply in my building already runs on a smart meter.

Eventually, I took my case to the Energy Ombudsman, who ruled in my favor, requiring Scottish Power to install a single-rate smart meter, allowing me to switch to Octopus Energy.Its being installed tomorrow 4/2/2025

For those with a Thermaflow boiler and an Economy 2000 tariff, my heating engineers (NeatHeat) recommend switching to Octopus Cozy or Octopus Agile. They also offer an additional timer installation to better control when the boiler draws electricity.

My personal belief is that Scottish Power is deliberately slow in replacing RTS meters because doing so would allow many locked-in customers to switch providers. That’s just my perspective, but if you're in a similar situation, know that you can push for a meter change—and the ombudsman can support your case if needed.

Has anyone else had a similar experience with RTS meters or switching from Economy 2000

Scot_39

The main problem with 3 rate metering - and some SP systems are actually three seperate CU / circuits - on those three rates - NSH restricted - reserved list 24/7 active sockets for heating - she had a couple of fires wired on it / cooker ? - and normal iirc on one setup iirc my old aunts house.

Is that there really isn't a single 4 or 5 port meter that can handle every option.   Commonly available these days AFAIK.   

Despite at least one manufacturer - Secure Liberty 114 (smets1)  / 116 smets2 series iirc - upto 7 port smets1 then smets2 upgrade series for exactly that eventuality  (upto 3 aux live outputs - not just a five ports 1) 

But yes - they were stonewalling people I know with RTS - as still working on solution - certainly just before - even probably beyond the initial cut off date before the extension to June 25.

Elexon might update the remaining RTS installs data at the end of the month - last year to Dec they were only dropping about 10,000 per month.

hoopie8

I am with British Gas. I have two meters. Long story short engineers have told me I can't get smart meter as it will trip my two fuse boxes. I need a 2ratemeter. BG have said they do not supply these and I will need to get my house rewired to accommodate new meter. I cannot afford this and am very concerned about what will happen at switch off. BG are no help and have left me to pick up the pieces. 

QrizB

hoopie8 said:

I am with British Gas. I have two meters. Long story short engineers have told me I can't get smart meter as it will trip my two fuse boxes. I need a 2ratemeter. BG have said they do not supply these and I will need to get my house rewired to accommodate new meter. I cannot afford this and am very concerned about what will happen at switch off. BG are no help and have left me to pick up the pieces. 

Wiring after the meter is the responsibility of the property owner (freeholderleaseholder).
I'm curious as to why BG have told you "it will trip my teo fuse boxes". Could you share a photo?

Gerry1

@hoopie8

Submit a formal written complaint and go to the Ombudsman upon receipt of a deadlock letter of after eight weeks if they don't send one.

Alternatively if you're not tied in by a good fix and/or exit fees, Ditch & Switch to a Which? recommended supplier.

For example, if you switch to Octopus you could share £100 with a friend or relative who gave you a referral code, and your standing charge will probably be slightly lower as well.

Edit: Typo

vim_fuego_1965

Good grief Rocksie68 - this is exactly the same situation I’m in! 

I’ve been fighting SP on behalf of my 82 yo mum since May 19th this year and it’s disgusting behaviour on their part. It’s taken them 7 months to own up that kWh usage is double because hot water is on 24/7 and RTS used to control that. Their solution is to switch off the boiler at the wall!!

I wonder whether Martin L could get the head of SP onto his show like he did with the Octopus CEO last week to embarrass these companies re the RTS shutdown. 

It’s absolutely abysmal and I fear for my mum health as she’s refusing to heat the home in case bills skyrocket 🥶

Scot_39

@vim_fuego_1965

It could be that the meter hasn't even been fitted correctly or configured correctly - if not driving the old restricted circuits from a restricted output.

But in some cases - its not always possible to replicate old systems (my supplier coldn't fully mimic my old RTS setup replaced years ago as they couldn't drive or measure my two seperate restricted RTS meter supply outputs)

Or are you saying she hasn't had a new meter yet and worried that RTS will default to 24/7 live after switch off.

In some cases - new meters do need home wiring adaptation - but its not really all that common. And that would be at the homeowners / leaseholders expense (or private or social landlord if renting).

So a simple timer switches to restrict the HW active times - are often relatively cheap to buy and dont take a lot of time for an electrician to install as a general rule.  But in reality a properly configured tank immersion thermostat wouldnt normally lead to the energy or power increasing all that dramatically - with a modern hot water tank anyway - as will lose slightly more heat - but most modern tanks are rated at 1-2kWh loses per day. Going from E7 7 hours say to 24 hours - shouldn't mean HW bills go up anywhere near pro rata.

The real problem is if the heating - say NSH - is also badly impacted by the new meter install - and on 24/7 live - as care will be needed potentially on settings - especially on older models (new programmable with some internal charge learning should cope better) - to not to end up with far larger energy bills.

Do you know what model heaters she has - if NSH - are they modern / programmable - lot 20 or HHR ?

(I run my old manual NSH on quarter input dial at max for most of winter (excluding beast from east type sub zero day / night extremes) - right now only 2 on on min - as het to that 3x per day - but I also run a cold house - they would use far more and the house far warmer if I left anywhere near max for E10 10 hours - over 3 slots per day) 

Do you know which one of the many varied electric heating schemes SP offered your mother was on - and if the meter has been replaced - what tariff she has been put on now. As I am afraid - there is no universal RTS tariff / meter / home wiring arrangement - or smart meter replacement arrangement for those - across UK suppliers) SP list 11 - some regional / some very bespoke legacy RTS type setups

https://www.scottishpower.co.uk/energy-efficiency/energy-efficiency-toolkit/electric-heating

If she has a new meter - can you tell us the model - and any chance of redacted photos of meter (no serial numbers etc) and the meter tails at the bottom and any isolator / connection blocks for the CU feeds - and photos of her fuse boxes / consumer units to identify power distribution (so open so can read label clues like lighting, ring main, nsh by room, immersion heater etc if the fuses / mcbs are labelled ) ?

vim_fuego_1965

hi Scot_39

msny thanks for taking the time to reply. It’s late so I will post what SP sent me last Thursday and check back tomorrow to try to understand what’s going on reading your helpful comment Her system is a thermaflow TH12 210u on economy 2000 tariff according to the bill. The new smart meter is alcara sgm 1422-b fitted in may 19th this year 

As far as I can gather the hot water has been on 24/7 for 7 months 😟. Anyway here is what SP are saying below


Furthermore, the current smart meter cannot be configured for a three-rate tariff as it does not have the required functionality.

The customer’s hot water supply tails are connected directly to their consumer unit, providing a continuous supply from the 24-hour circuit. Previously, the RTS (Radio Teleswitch Service) telemeter controlled this circuit, switching it on and off like an immersion switch. Customers could also manually boost the hot water during the day if needed.

The meter’s fifth port is connected to the heating circuit and is controlled by the telemeter, which supplies 8.5 hours of electricity overnight. Smart meters do not have a separate function to independently control both heating and hot water circuits. If the hot water tails were connected to the fifth port, the supply could not be boosted during the day, limiting the customer’s ability to access additional hot water when required.

Therefore, it was decided to allow customers direct control over their hot water by enabling them to use their own timer or immersion switch.

I’m struggling to get them to agree that

1. It’s unfair to charge her for all the electric used between may and nov when she had no knowledge of the change

2. Why fit the new meter if it can’t do the job and at least let me know it needs another bit of kit

3. They can’t ask 82 year old to switch off the boiler 

4. Reading Rosalie 68 it would seem octopus will fit a timer but SP won’t do that?

5. Will switching in and off the 24/7 supply damage the boiler?

Anyway I will read it again tomorrow with a clear head 👍

Ildhund

vim_fuego_1965 said:

Her system is a thermaflow TH12 210u on economy 2000 tariff according to the bill. The new smart meter is alcara sgm 1422-b 

...the current smart meter cannot be configured for a three-rate tariff as it does not have the required functionality.

A couple of random comments: the Aclara SGM 1422-B is a two-element device, meaning it can operate more or less as two separate meters. This means it's quite capable of managing three or even four import ToU tariffs. It looks like just the sort of thing needed to replace an RTS system with different peak, offpeak and heating rates. The offpeak rate was usually for Night Storage Heaters (NSH) and hot water tanks that could charge up overnight at lower prices. The heating rate was for other necessary heating equipment supplementing the NSH without having to pay peak prices for using it. The offpeak supply - the heaviest load - was controlled by the RTS to be live at times dictated by the DNO or the weather or both. That is the bit that no longer applies. As far as I can see, SP's alleged Economy 2000 tariff has only two rates - high and higher:
  

  
Thermaflow show a detailed wiring diagram for this type of boiler (on p.18), with specific instructions for E2000 metering. It looks like you need at least an MSc in Hydroelectronic Engineering to make sense of it. I wonder how many boiler installation engineers understand how to connect up to a five-port twin-element SMETS2 meter - there seems to be ample scope for mistakes. Nevertheless, since this heating system was designed in Scotland for Scottish conditions, Thermaflow may be the best source of help to get it configured to best suit your mother. 

Do you have any definite information from SP about the offpeak timings this supply is subjected to? There should be three, possibly not identical, sets of timings: what the tariff promises, what the meter's tariff switching table is set to (which determines when usage is recorded on an offpeak register) and what the meter's auxiliary load control switch is set to (turning power to a restricted circuit on and off). 

  

vim_fuego_1965

Hi ilhund, many thanks for taking time to reply. 

I was considering asking thermaflow about this. I find this stuff mind bogging let alone trying to explain to thermals or my mum😂

I spoke to SP this morning and they told me  tariff is standard variable with heating and standard at the rates you have posted. So far as I know that tariff hasn’t changed since the new smart meter was put in.