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Penalty Notice Yellow Box Junction Road Works Ahead
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If that's the "get out" route then it looks like there's a gaping hole in the legislation; did "Mr. Loophole" devise this? 😁
Trouble is, people who draft legislation often do not think outside the box (I'm not sure whether to intend a pun or not
)
When considering box junctions, their prime purpose is to prevent the junction from becoming gridlocked by queues of vehicles fouling it. So it makes sense to draft legislation which says (basically) "You must not enter the box junction if it is not clear for you to exit it." It was probably not envisaged that a driver would stop in the middle of a junction if his exit was clear. So that's how the legislation was drafted.
It might have been more effective for the legislation to simply say "You must not stop inside a box junction" (with exceptions for right turns and pedestrians requiring the driver to stop). But it doesn't say that.3 -
Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles.
(2) The prohibition in sub-paragraph (1) does not apply to any person—
(a)who causes a vehicle to enter the box junction (other than a box junction at a roundabout) for the purpose of turning right; and
(b)stops it within the box junction for so long as it is prevented from completing the right turn by oncoming vehicles or other vehicles which are stationary whilst waiting to complete a right turn.
If it sticks, force it.
If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.0 -
This ^.Ectophile said:Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles...
As I pointed out a couple of days ago the offence is causing a vehicle "... to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles..."
Despite what the Highway code says it's got absolutely nothing to do with not entering a box junction if your exit isn't clear. It's perfectly possible to commit the offence if your exit was clear when you entered the box, and it isn't by itself an offence to enter the box if your exit is not clear. The Highway Code does not reflect the law correctly.
As I said previously, if the OP wants confirmation of this they should post on FTLA.
In this case there is no offence because the OP has not - so far as we can tell from the single image* they have shared - stopped because of the presence of stationary vehicles and they should challenge the PCN.
*I suppose it's possible (but unlikely) that an earlier extract from the video shows the OP stopping because of the presence of stationary vehicles that have subsequently moved off before the image shared by the OP. But if the image shared is the only evidence Havering has, then there is no proof of an offence1 -
No, you have quoted selectively from the law. The offence is actually "... causing a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles..."Okell said:
This ^.Ectophile said:Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles...
As I pointed out a couple of days ago the offence is causing a vehicle "... to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles..."
Despite what the Highway code says it's got absolutely nothing to do with not entering a box junction if your exit isn't clear. It's perfectly possible to commit the offence if your exit was clear when you entered the box, and it isn't by itself an offence to enter the box if your exit is not clear. The Highway Code does not reflect the law correctly.
As I said previously, if the OP wants confirmation of this they should post on FTLA.
In this case there is no offence because the OP has not - so far as we can tell from the single image* they have shared - stopped because of the presence of stationary vehicles and they should challenge the PCN.
*I suppose it's possible (but unlikely) that an earlier extract from the video shows the OP stopping because of the presence of stationary vehicles that have subsequently moved off before the image shared by the OP. But if the image shared is the only evidence Havering has, then there is no proof of an offence
It may seem pedantic, but the offence is committed when you enter, not when you stop.
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You have to do both, enter and stop to cause the offence, just entering isn't an offence, it's the stopping that causing the offence.Car_54 said:
No, you have quoted selectively from the law. The offence is actually "... causing a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles..."Okell said:
This ^.Ectophile said:Prohibition conveyed by markings in diagram 1043 or 1044
7.—(1) Except when placed in the circumstances described in paragraph 8, the road markings shown in diagrams 1043 and 1044 shall each convey the prohibition that no person shall cause a vehicle to enter the box junction so that the vehicle has to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles...
As I pointed out a couple of days ago the offence is causing a vehicle "... to stop within the box junction due to the presence of stationary vehicles..."
Despite what the Highway code says it's got absolutely nothing to do with not entering a box junction if your exit isn't clear. It's perfectly possible to commit the offence if your exit was clear when you entered the box, and it isn't by itself an offence to enter the box if your exit is not clear. The Highway Code does not reflect the law correctly.
As I said previously, if the OP wants confirmation of this they should post on FTLA.
In this case there is no offence because the OP has not - so far as we can tell from the single image* they have shared - stopped because of the presence of stationary vehicles and they should challenge the PCN.
*I suppose it's possible (but unlikely) that an earlier extract from the video shows the OP stopping because of the presence of stationary vehicles that have subsequently moved off before the image shared by the OP. But if the image shared is the only evidence Havering has, then there is no proof of an offence
It may seem pedantic, but the offence is committed when you enter, not when you stop.
Let's Be Careful Out There2 -
"...it's the stopping that causing the offence."
Yes but only if the vehicle has to stop within the box due to the presence of stationary vehicles.1 -
Yes, what I replied too stated that, I don't tend to give chapter and verse in my replies as expect what I quoted to read along with my post (or am I giving posters too much credit?).TooManyPoints said:"...it's the stopping that causing the offence."
Yes but only if the vehicle has to stop within the box due to he presence of stationary vehicles.
Let's Be Careful Out There0 -
Yes! :
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Putting aside the points on stopping in the box & way clear.
Given you could plainly see the signs before entering the box. Why did you enter & then stop, instead of stopping before entering?Life in the slow lane0
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