Taking a conveyancer to small claims court

SmallClaimant123

Miri_J said:

The conveyancer wouldn't know. My conveyancer made it very clear to me that she hadn't visited site so I had to be certain that everything matched the plans etc. In the end I pulled out of one property because I worked out that they hadn't complied with building regulations and I didn't want to take the risk.

However I was moving from one local authority area to another.  I spoke to my current local authority and they said as long as no one objected then no enforcement action would be taken.

Has anyone notified the LA? Do you have to do the work, or are you just worried that you might have to?

LA have not been informed and it’s been over two years. But if I re-sell I assume anyone with a half decent solicitor will ask for a certificate, which I won’t have 

user1977

SmallClaimant123 said:

Miri_J said:

The conveyancer wouldn't know. My conveyancer made it very clear to me that she hadn't visited site so I had to be certain that everything matched the plans etc. In the end I pulled out of one property because I worked out that they hadn't complied with building regulations and I didn't want to take the risk.

However I was moving from one local authority area to another.  I spoke to my current local authority and they said as long as no one objected then no enforcement action would be taken.

Has anyone notified the LA? Do you have to do the work, or are you just worried that you might have to?

LA have not been informed and it’s been over two years. But if I re-sell I assume anyone with a half decent solicitor will ask for a certificate, which I won’t have 

So you tell them you don't have a certificate. And unless there's anything objectively wrong with the roof, they'll probably go ahead and buy it (especially as the works will be even more historic by then).

Hoenir

SmallClaimant123 said:

Robin9 said:

What level of survey did you have ? It's only the surveyor who has visited site - the solicitor/conveyancer would be relying on that report and the answers to the questions that the seller made.

Level 2 survey - which had photos of a full set of brand new roof tiles, the text in the “roof” section talks of new roof tiles said how the conveyancer needed to obtain any relevant certification. 

Did you raise this point with the conveyancer? 

AskAsk

SmallClaimant123 said:

Robin9 said:

What level of survey did you have ? It's only the surveyor who has visited site - the solicitor/conveyancer would be relying on that report and the answers to the questions that the seller made.

Level 2 survey - which had photos of a full set of brand new roof tiles, the text in the “roof” section talks of new roof tiles said how the conveyancer needed to obtain any relevant certification. 

But because the seller said the roof was “repaired” they seem to have assumed it meant a bloke on a ladder changed a few slipped tiles

so you sent this to the solicitor?

then why did you not ask the solicitor where is this certification that the survey states is required?

part of this will be blamed on yourself as you are also required to do your own due diligence.

were all the roof tiles replaced?

when people sell a property on, no one really care very much about the roof unless it is new or there are issues flagged up with it.  so say you sell the property on in 5 years time and there is nothing wrong with the roof, no one will care.

a lot of people don't actually get building regs certifcates for new roofs.

AskAsk

HouseMartin567 said:

AskAsk said:

it is your surveyor that should have done this, and not the conveyancer.  they deal with legal issues and not structural.

Is it not between the two? Surveyor flags the work has been done and then the solicitor obtains copies of the correct certification?

solicitors don't always look at surveys and advice on that.  they rely on the property information form that the seller completes, which asks if there has been any work done to the property and if so, to provide the relevant certification.

if the seller has lied and said no work has been done when a new roof had been installed, then the seller is the one that should be sued and not the conveyancer as they were not told by the seller that work had been done.

the survey is actually addressed to the buyer and not the solicitor and it advises the buyer to ask the solicitors to ask for various certifications, so technically speaking, the OP is responsible for flagging this up with his solicitor and not the other way round.

SmallClaimant123

AskAsk said:

HouseMartin567 said:

AskAsk said:

it is your surveyor that should have done this, and not the conveyancer.  they deal with legal issues and not structural.

Is it not between the two? Surveyor flags the work has been done and then the solicitor obtains copies of the correct certification?

solicitors don't always look at surveys and advice on that.  they rely on the property information form that the seller completes, which asks if there has been any work done to the property and if so, to provide the relevant certification.

if the seller has lied and said no work has been done when a new roof had been installed, then the seller is the one that should be sued and not the conveyancer as they were not told by the seller that work had been done.

the survey is actually addressed to the buyer and not the solicitor and it advises the buyer to ask the solicitors to ask for various certifications, so technically speaking, the OP is responsible for flagging this up with his solicitor and not the other way round.

The conveyancer apparently asked the seller and he said the roof was “repaired” with new tiles - which they took to mean that he basically had a couple of tiles replaced. They seem to have ignored the photos of a gleaming new set of roof tiles and wording of the surveyor’s report. 

The seller was right as the new tiles did indeed repair the roof. So my case is not with him

Tiglet2

HouseMartin567 said:

AskAsk said:

it is your surveyor that should have done this, and not the conveyancer.  they deal with legal issues and not structural.

Is it not between the two? Surveyor flags the work has been done and then the solicitor obtains copies of the correct certification?

The surveyor sends the survey to you only.  Did you

(1) send a copy of the survey to your solicitor? 
(2) ask your solicitor to raise any enquiries with the seller's solicitor regarding any issues included in the survey?
(3)  If you sent a copy of the survey to your solicitor, but didn't ask him to query any issues revealed in the survey, then the only section a solicitor will look at, is the Section for legal advisers. What does this say about the roof?

Is there anything in the survey that confirms that over 50% of the tiles were new?  If not, how would the solicitor know the percentage of work done?

A level 2 survey is not very detailed, so be aware of the limitations of this type of survey.  You instruct a survey to inform you of the condition of the property.  On a modern property a level 2 survey may be fine but older properties will need maintenance and a level 3 survey may be a better choice.

SmallClaimant123

AskAsk said:

HouseMartin567 said:

AskAsk said:

it is your surveyor that should have done this, and not the conveyancer.  they deal with legal issues and not structural.

Is it not between the two? Surveyor flags the work has been done and then the solicitor obtains copies of the correct certification?

solicitors don't always look at surveys and advice on that.  they rely on the property information form that the seller completes, which asks if there has been any work done to the property and if so, to provide the relevant certification.

if the seller has lied and said no work has been done when a new roof had been installed, then the seller is the one that should be sued and not the conveyancer as they were not told by the seller that work had been done.

the survey is actually addressed to the buyer and not the solicitor and it advises the buyer to ask the solicitors to ask for various certifications, so technically speaking, the OP is responsible for flagging this up with his solicitor and not the other way round.

I expected they, the legal experts, had checked and confirmed, on the back of the survey report, that the scope of the report roofing work didn’t need to meet any building regs. Hence there were no missing certifications as there never needed to be any

AskAsk

SmallClaimant123 said:

AskAsk said:

HouseMartin567 said:

AskAsk said:

it is your surveyor that should have done this, and not the conveyancer.  they deal with legal issues and not structural.

Is it not between the two? Surveyor flags the work has been done and then the solicitor obtains copies of the correct certification?

solicitors don't always look at surveys and advice on that.  they rely on the property information form that the seller completes, which asks if there has been any work done to the property and if so, to provide the relevant certification.

if the seller has lied and said no work has been done when a new roof had been installed, then the seller is the one that should be sued and not the conveyancer as they were not told by the seller that work had been done.

the survey is actually addressed to the buyer and not the solicitor and it advises the buyer to ask the solicitors to ask for various certifications, so technically speaking, the OP is responsible for flagging this up with his solicitor and not the other way round.

I expected they, the legal experts, had checked and confirmed, on the back of the survey report, that the scope of the report roofing work didn’t need to meet any building regs. Hence there were no missing certifications as there never needed to be any

no, you are wrong.  you are responsible for taking the lead on this as the survey is for your information, not the solicitors.  i never send the survey on to my solicitor and i don't always carry out surveys.

if the roof tiles have been replaced because the roof was repaired and a significant amount of new tiles had been used, it may still not fall under a new roof.

old tiles can be cleaned to look like new tiles so the photos on their own won't be defininative proof that a new roof had been done.  it is only by visual inspection by a surveyor that he can confirm if a new roof had been done.

your surveyor had confirmed that new tiles had been put up but did he raise any issue with the roof apart from saying that the solicitors should request certification?

the reason the council / building control is interested is because they are concerned about  safety, that is, that the new tiles are not too heavy for the roof structure and so could cause the building to collapse and that they are not loose so they can fall off the roof and hurt people.  if the replacement tiles are the same as the old ones then there isn't really any safety issue (especially if it is still fine by the time you get round to selling the property on) so it isn't going to be a big problem for anyone.  the council couldn't care less if the new roof leaks.

Robin9

If anyone should have notified Building Control it would have been the roofing contractor - unless it was DIY.


OP  - rest easy and move on . Nobody is going to bother.

I had a similar job - entire roof stripped, new felt. new battens and two complete rows of tiles added to correct the poor original 1973 build where the tiles didn't overlap properly. I didn't even think of Building Control.