Deposit and notice period after 13 year tenancy (tenant)

Cazzabunga

Hi, I hope you can help me. I have rented a property for 13 years and am moving out. Our original tenancy agreement was an assured short hold tenancy for 6 months and it’s just carried on since then. We haven’t had any other contract (so I think it’s a rolling contract?) and haven’t signed anything. The house was in a poor old state when we moved in, it had mouldy windows with these awful broken blinds, the carpets were old and smelly, the laminate floor old and damaged, very sloppy paintwork and the kitchen and bathroom were awful too - bath panel was yellow and cracked and dangerous for my toddlers at the time. There was no inventory and I did take some photos. The previous tenants lived here for 9 years and I think nothing was replaced (or even cleaned) when they moved out. The landlord purchased the house at the start of their tenancy.

Over the years we have tried to make it a home. The kitchen was falling to bits and we asked the landlord if we could replace the kitchen in 2021 (hoping he would put his hand in his pocket) but we ended up buying a cheap second hand kitchen which he did thankfully fit, but we bought the paint, worktops, cupboards, oven, extractor fan and he payed for floor and tiles. He nearly completed the job but didn’t quite finish fitting the kitchen, he just stopped coming over and we didn’t hear from him for a good year. We ended up paying for and fitting plinths and carrying on with what we had.

We have paid for and replaced two of the bedroom carpets and the stair carpets as they were so bad. Our room has the original carpet.

We have decorated the house and it has some different colours including a feature wall. The landlord has been fine with this and at no point has he said they need to be a particular colour.

My questions are:

Our rent day is the first of the month and we gave our notice in the middle of the month (the 15th) to move out on the 15th the next month. He has said that we will need to pay for a full month up to the 1st rather than half of a month. There is nothing in our contract that says this so I’m not sure if I am correct.

He has also said we will get the deposit if everything is in order. There kitchen cupboards we bought were in ‘fair’ condition, it was somebody else’s old kitchen and it was chipped when we bought it. The cover on the bottom cupboards is quite badly peeling off and the doors will need to be replaced (6 cupboards). I think this is because they were a good 15 years old when we bought the, as that was all we could afford.

The wooden worktop is damaged around the sink but the landlord did not seal it (as he just abandoned the job). We also bought these worktops (second hand).

We paid for a new bath panel 13 years ago but this is water damaged and shoddy now.

The laminate floor is in a state, it’s got big gaps in it and is very worn in places. This is at least 22 years old.

He has been a very hands off landlord, he’s often ignored us when something has needed doing but I am now worried that he will try and claim our deposit for all of the above, Does he have a leg to stand on? I have a feeling he wants to try and let is as it is for the next lot of tenants and will try and make us pay for that. I also don’t think he is right about us having to pay for a whole calendar month and that was can’t give notice mid month. 

Any advice very gratefully received. Thanks (and sorry for the long read!).

anselld

He is correct that the one month notice needs to align to rent day.

For the deposit he cannot have new for old so 13+ years of life will depreciate the value of most things to zero.  See what he asks, negotiate what you think reasonable and if you cannot agree use the deposit arbitration scheme.

pinkshoes

As above, he is right about the rental notice period.

But as for the state of the house, then he cannot charge you for wear and tear, and as there was no inventory, he cannot prove what it was like 13 years ago anyway, so utterly irrelevant.

If he tries to deduct so much as a penny, I would counter claim for all the carpets you had to buy, the kitchen etc... which will no doubt come to far more than the cost of what he wants to deduct.

And as everything is 13 years old at least, then he will struggle to be able to charge for anything!

Bookworm105

I assume your original contract does not have anything specific in writing about what happens at the end of the fixed term in relation to notice periods?
Therefore your "rolling contract" is now legally called a Statutory Periodic Tenancy under which notice periods are set in statute law (ie that made by Parliament) and cannot be varied unless both sides mutually agree on something else.

SPT (England and Wales law)  requires a tenant to give one rental period's notice.
Your rent day is the first of the month and you pay monthly. So you must give one complete rental period notice, ie one month from the rent day.
Rental periods are not divisible in law, so as you dated it on the 15th, the LL is quite within their right to make you wait until the end of the following month, so 15th to 31st + the next full (rental period) month.  

Cazzabunga

 Thanks so much for your help all that replied. I can’t work out how to response to individual responses but to @Bookworm105, the contract says the require possession of the dwelling on the expiry of (2012) by virtue of section 21 of the Housing Act 1988. Is this an SPT?

Grumpy_chap

As a LL, having received rent paid every month for 13 years with no void periods (I assume the OP paid all rent as required), I would consider that the property requires full redecoration throughout so no issues around state of decoration, carpets and such like.  Simply return the deposit in full and bid the tenant well for their future.

Also, as a LL, while the notice period should be a full period, for a tenant in place for 13 years, I'd be glad to accept the month's notice as given regardless of how that fitted with the monthly cycle.

It sounds as though the OP's LL is not as reasonable as I would be.  Perhaps I am too soft.

Bookworm105

Cazzabunga said:

 Thanks so much for your help all that replied. I can’t work out how to response to individual responses but to @Bookworm105, the contract says the require possession of the dwelling on the expiry of (2012) by virtue of section 21 of the Housing Act 1988. Is this an SPT?

press the quote button - see below 



That wording you mention is for another purpose which we do not need to consider here.

An SPT is established by default if there is no explicit wording in the contract that covers what happens after the end of the fixed period. For example: "this contract will continue on a month to month basis", the "contract becomes periodic". If there is such wording then it creates a Contractual Periodic Tenancy (CPT) and may have wording which sets out the length of notice you must give if you wish to leave after the end of fixed of fixed period set out in that contract. That CPT then continues until such time as either you or the LL seek to end it through correct notice as set out in the CPT (or the contract reaches its actual expiry date if there was one in the first place).

If there is no such wording then you continue your occupancy under the terms of an SPT. The SPT continues  until such time as either you or the LL seek to end it through correct notice as set out in Statute law

FlorayG

Don't worry about the 2012 Section 21, they expire after 6 months 'unused' anyway
As a landlord I agree your LL doesn't have a hope, especially as you have photographs and hopefully invoices for the improvements you made yourself. Just claim your deposit and wait and see if LL wants to claim any of it; the deposit protection company will find on your favour

saajan_12

Cazzabunga said:

Hi, I hope you can help me. I have rented a property for 13 years and am moving out. Our original tenancy agreement was an assured short hold tenancy for 6 months and it’s just carried on since then. We haven’t had any other contract (so I think it’s a rolling contract?) and haven’t signed anything. 
..

Our rent day is the first of the month and we gave our notice in the middle of the month (the 15th) to move out on the 15th the next month. He has said that we will need to pay for a full month up to the 1st rather than half of a month. There is nothing in our contract that says this so I’m not sure if I am correct.

Strictly it could be an SPT or a CPT. If your last contract from 13 years ago stated anything about what would happen after the 6 month fixed term, then its a CPT and those terms apply. The terms may specify a different notice period which may or may not be 1 month, with dates that do or do not need to align to the rent payment date.

If nothing is mentioned, then its an SPT, with notice being 1 full tenancy period. So informing them part way through the month is really just informing in advance of the 1st -> 28th Feb tenancy period. 

You can always try to negotiate something different with the LL. 

Cazzabunga

Thanks for the answers. An update, he’s agreed to end the tenancy a month after we gave notice, however he has again said he will let us know what needs to be taken from the deposit, so it looks like we may have a bit of a battle on our hands, I wouldn’t put it past him to try and get us to replace the kitchen cupboards we bought already!

anselld

Cazzabunga said:

Thanks for the answers. An update, he’s agreed to end the tenancy a month after we gave notice, however he has again said he will let us know what needs to be taken from the deposit, so it looks like we may have a bit of a battle on our hands, I wouldn’t put it past him to try and get us to replace the kitchen cupboards we bought already!

It is perfectly reasonable that deposit will be sorted after the tenancy ends.  He has been very reasonable in allowing less than the contractually required notice.  Why assume you will have a “battle”?  At least wait and see what is proposed at checkout.