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Section 8 hand-delivery questions

I am posting this on behalf of a family member. I am afraid it will be a long post, but need to be thorough.
They are renting a flat through a letting agency, that manages the property fully for the landlord. 
They got served the Section 8 notice in December because of rent arrears. They are trying to find the money to cover the arrears before it all goes to court and fully intend to fix this situation and have already made a partial payment towards the arrears back in December. Their aim is to pay the arrears and have been very apologetic with the landlord and doing what they can to fix this asap.

This notice was found inside their postbox, in an envelope that had absolutely nothing written on it other than the date. No recipient or address. 
Anyone living at the property with access to the postbox, could have opened this as it wasn’t addressed to anyone, not even a generic occupier. That also means anyone else could have taken the letter and done whatever they liked with it and this would have been an issue for my family member.
I have already told my family member that this particular thing doesn’t invalidate anything, but it just means that the agent didn’t really do a very professional job when serving it. It baffles us that they couldn’t be bothered to write a name on it when they could write the date on the envelope instead. Makes no sense. 
My family member has always opened the door when agent showed up, even about the arrears and was home that day the agent put this into the postbox. Agent didn't even try to knock or anything. They just dropped the letter into the postbox. 
I’ve already told them this wouldn’t help if unfortunately this was to reach court, but just wanted to check that I gave correct advice. They do wanna pay and avoid court altogether but are trying to prepare themselves for the worst.

Boiler has had issues and needs a repair. This has been going on for a few months now and even before they had arrears. It hasn’t been fixed yet. The repairs being needed have been acknowledged also in writing by the agents and confirmed by their plumbers when they attended to perform the annual gas check.
The issue is landlord said they won’t repair as they have no money to do so and saying this is because of the rent arrears. Rent is not being withheld in retaliation. Family member lost their job and this is the cause of the arrears. They know they cannot do that. 
Landlord is instead refusing repairs due to arrears. This is not something they can do from what I know. Could this be something that can be used if the arrears thing were to go to court? As in, can this help show the landlord in a bad light? Family member hasn’t argued back about this with them and hasn’t demanded repairs, accepting that their arrears are causing problems to the landlord. 

Another thing is that there was no check actually performed. Family member witnessed the whole thing and all that the plumber did was take a couple of phone calls and briefly try to see what the issue with the boiler might be before saying they would order some parts and that’s it. They signed a certificate stating they did all the security checks they didn’t actually carry out at all. Of course this cannot be proved I guess, but my family member witnessed the lack of any checks. 
Anything that can be used in court, again? We know stuff like this wouldn’t invalidate the notice, but surely it would make the landlord etc. look bad? 

When the agent dropped the notice into the postbox, how would they prove hand-delivery? Do they have to prove it even in the first place? Claiming non receipt would be a very last resort and it’s not the course I am recommending here or that my family member wants to take, but we are asking to be prepared for anything. The goal is to fix the arrears before any court action. 
There was no witness to this. They don’t have pics or recordings that shows them delivering it. Agent was alone ( cannot explain how we know without making the post even longer than it is already but we know) and definitely my family member didn’t sign anything to confirm receipt or wrote anywhere that they received it. 
I read the agent will usually fill in something called certificate of service, but that’s where we got confused… does this have to be signed by the tenant also or a witness? Some people have told us that the agent signing it is witness to himself and that’s good enough. Is this true? But then, what’s to stop the agent from not delivering it and just falsely filling in this form to say they delivered the notice? Is his word enough for the court? Without anything else to back it up? 

Landlord hand-delivered a letter where he stated he had arranged for a valuation of the flat because he wants to sell for the very next day and that it would happen regardless as they were gonna instruct the property manager of the flat letting to my family member to allow access. This without any consent needed by my family member. I said this is not allowed as it’s not an emergency and goes against what’s in the tenancy agreement. They luckily then managed to get the landlord to postpone the visit to a date that was more suitable as my family member would have had the valuation happen whilst sleeping after a night shift and with another one that night. 
The landlord didn’t even wait to see what my family member would say. The visit would have never been hindered. It just needed to be carried out at a different date. I just said this is another of those things that makes the LL look bad and that they can’t force entry unless it’s an emergency, which this wasn’t. 
Thanks in advance for any replies. I am stressing that my family member is cooperating and understanding the arrears are causing the LL big issues and they absolutely want to pay those, but if they cannot raise the money in time we are asking what can be done to at least maybe delay the eviction if it goes to court and if any of those things I mentioned can help stall the eviction somehow. 
 

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Comments

  • pinkshoes
    pinkshoes Posts: 20,498 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    I am posting this on behalf of a family member. I am afraid it will be a long post, but need to be thorough.
    They are renting a flat through a letting agency, that manages the property fully for the landlord. 
    They got served the Section 8 notice in December because of rent arrears. They are trying to find the money to cover the arrears before it all goes to court and fully intend to fix this situation and have already made a partial payment towards the arrears back in December. Their aim is to pay the arrears and have been very apologetic with the landlord and doing what they can to fix this asap.

    This notice was found inside their postbox, in an envelope that had absolutely nothing written on it other than the date. No recipient or address. 
    Anyone living at the property with access to the postbox, could have opened this as it wasn’t addressed to anyone, not even a generic occupier. That also means anyone else could have taken the letter and done whatever they liked with it and this would have been an issue for my family member.
    I have already told my family member that this particular thing doesn’t invalidate anything, but it just means that the agent didn’t really do a very professional job when serving it. It baffles us that they couldn’t be bothered to write a name on it when they could write the date on the envelope instead. Makes no sense. 
    My family member has always opened the door when agent showed up, even about the arrears and was home that day the agent put this into the postbox. Agent didn't even try to knock or anything. They just dropped the letter into the postbox. 
    I’ve already told them this wouldn’t help if unfortunately this was to reach court, but just wanted to check that I gave correct advice. They do wanna pay and avoid court altogether but are trying to prepare themselves for the worst.

    Boiler has had issues and needs a repair. This has been going on for a few months now and even before they had arrears. It hasn’t been fixed yet. The repairs being needed have been acknowledged also in writing by the agents and confirmed by their plumbers when they attended to perform the annual gas check.
    The issue is landlord said they won’t repair as they have no money to do so and saying this is because of the rent arrears. Rent is not being withheld in retaliation. Family member lost their job and this is the cause of the arrears. They know they cannot do that. 
    Landlord is instead refusing repairs due to arrears. This is not something they can do from what I know. Could this be something that can be used if the arrears thing were to go to court? As in, can this help show the landlord in a bad light? Family member hasn’t argued back about this with them and hasn’t demanded repairs, accepting that their arrears are causing problems to the landlord. 

    Another thing is that there was no check actually performed. Family member witnessed the whole thing and all that the plumber did was take a couple of phone calls and briefly try to see what the issue with the boiler might be before saying they would order some parts and that’s it. They signed a certificate stating they did all the security checks they didn’t actually carry out at all. Of course this cannot be proved I guess, but my family member witnessed the lack of any checks. 
    Anything that can be used in court, again? We know stuff like this wouldn’t invalidate the notice, but surely it would make the landlord etc. look bad? 

    When the agent dropped the notice into the postbox, how would they prove hand-delivery? Do they have to prove it even in the first place? Claiming non receipt would be a very last resort and it’s not the course I am recommending here or that my family member wants to take, but we are asking to be prepared for anything. The goal is to fix the arrears before any court action. 
    There was no witness to this. They don’t have pics or recordings that shows them delivering it. Agent was alone ( cannot explain how we know without making the post even longer than it is already but we know) and definitely my family member didn’t sign anything to confirm receipt or wrote anywhere that they received it. 
    I read the agent will usually fill in something called certificate of service, but that’s where we got confused… does this have to be signed by the tenant also or a witness? Some people have told us that the agent signing it is witness to himself and that’s good enough. Is this true? But then, what’s to stop the agent from not delivering it and just falsely filling in this form to say they delivered the notice? Is his word enough for the court? Without anything else to back it up? 

    Landlord hand-delivered a letter where he stated he had arranged for a valuation of the flat because he wants to sell for the very next day and that it would happen regardless as they were gonna instruct the property manager of the flat letting to my family member to allow access. This without any consent needed by my family member. I said this is not allowed as it’s not an emergency and goes against what’s in the tenancy agreement. They luckily then managed to get the landlord to postpone the visit to a date that was more suitable as my family member would have had the valuation happen whilst sleeping after a night shift and with another one that night. 
    The landlord didn’t even wait to see what my family member would say. The visit would have never been hindered. It just needed to be carried out at a different date. I just said this is another of those things that makes the LL look bad and that they can’t force entry unless it’s an emergency, which this wasn’t. 
    Thanks in advance for any replies. I am stressing that my family member is cooperating and understanding the arrears are causing the LL big issues and they absolutely want to pay those, but if they cannot raise the money in time we are asking what can be done to at least maybe delay the eviction if it goes to court and if any of those things I mentioned can help stall the eviction somehow. 
     

    If the section 8 was delivered with no name and no proof of postage then yes, they could deny ever receiving it to buy themselves some time.

    The LL should indeed be repairing the boiler, but sounds like the LL is perhaps inexperienced as well as struggling for money, so they are no doubt refusing to repair the boiler DUE to the rent arrears, not BECASUE of them e.g. they CANNOT afford to pay for the repair. It's not a good way to run a business, but not everyone has good business sense. 

    If you're worried the LL is going to enter without permission, then just change the lock barrel and change it back at the end of the tenancy.

    Ultimately, it seems the LL has no money, and was counting on full rent paid with minimum repair costs. The fact they're looking to sell says it all.

    It might be sensible for your relative to have a tea and cake conversation with the LL and see if they can help each other out. Your relative will probably have to move. They will need a good reference from the LL. The LL needs to rent paid and needs to sell. 
    Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
    Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')

    No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)
  • BadBehaviour
    BadBehaviour Posts: 317 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    edited 11 January at 4:06PM
    pinkshoes said:
    I am posting this on behalf of a family member. I am afraid it will be a long post, but need to be thorough.
    They are renting a flat through a letting agency, that manages the property fully for the landlord. 
    They got served the Section 8 notice in December because of rent arrears. They are trying to find the money to cover the arrears before it all goes to court and fully intend to fix this situation and have already made a partial payment towards the arrears back in December. Their aim is to pay the arrears and have been very apologetic with the landlord and doing what they can to fix this asap.

    This notice was found inside their postbox, in an envelope that had absolutely nothing written on it other than the date. No recipient or address. 
    Anyone living at the property with access to the postbox, could have opened this as it wasn’t addressed to anyone, not even a generic occupier. That also means anyone else could have taken the letter and done whatever they liked with it and this would have been an issue for my family member.
    I have already told my family member that this particular thing doesn’t invalidate anything, but it just means that the agent didn’t really do a very professional job when serving it. It baffles us that they couldn’t be bothered to write a name on it when they could write the date on the envelope instead. Makes no sense. 
    My family member has always opened the door when agent showed up, even about the arrears and was home that day the agent put this into the postbox. Agent didn't even try to knock or anything. They just dropped the letter into the postbox. 
    I’ve already told them this wouldn’t help if unfortunately this was to reach court, but just wanted to check that I gave correct advice. They do wanna pay and avoid court altogether but are trying to prepare themselves for the worst.

    Boiler has had issues and needs a repair. This has been going on for a few months now and even before they had arrears. It hasn’t been fixed yet. The repairs being needed have been acknowledged also in writing by the agents and confirmed by their plumbers when they attended to perform the annual gas check.
    The issue is landlord said they won’t repair as they have no money to do so and saying this is because of the rent arrears. Rent is not being withheld in retaliation. Family member lost their job and this is the cause of the arrears. They know they cannot do that. 
    Landlord is instead refusing repairs due to arrears. This is not something they can do from what I know. Could this be something that can be used if the arrears thing were to go to court? As in, can this help show the landlord in a bad light? Family member hasn’t argued back about this with them and hasn’t demanded repairs, accepting that their arrears are causing problems to the landlord. 

    Another thing is that there was no check actually performed. Family member witnessed the whole thing and all that the plumber did was take a couple of phone calls and briefly try to see what the issue with the boiler might be before saying they would order some parts and that’s it. They signed a certificate stating they did all the security checks they didn’t actually carry out at all. Of course this cannot be proved I guess, but my family member witnessed the lack of any checks. 
    Anything that can be used in court, again? We know stuff like this wouldn’t invalidate the notice, but surely it would make the landlord etc. look bad? 

    When the agent dropped the notice into the postbox, how would they prove hand-delivery? Do they have to prove it even in the first place? Claiming non receipt would be a very last resort and it’s not the course I am recommending here or that my family member wants to take, but we are asking to be prepared for anything. The goal is to fix the arrears before any court action. 
    There was no witness to this. They don’t have pics or recordings that shows them delivering it. Agent was alone ( cannot explain how we know without making the post even longer than it is already but we know) and definitely my family member didn’t sign anything to confirm receipt or wrote anywhere that they received it. 
    I read the agent will usually fill in something called certificate of service, but that’s where we got confused… does this have to be signed by the tenant also or a witness? Some people have told us that the agent signing it is witness to himself and that’s good enough. Is this true? But then, what’s to stop the agent from not delivering it and just falsely filling in this form to say they delivered the notice? Is his word enough for the court? Without anything else to back it up? 

    Landlord hand-delivered a letter where he stated he had arranged for a valuation of the flat because he wants to sell for the very next day and that it would happen regardless as they were gonna instruct the property manager of the flat letting to my family member to allow access. This without any consent needed by my family member. I said this is not allowed as it’s not an emergency and goes against what’s in the tenancy agreement. They luckily then managed to get the landlord to postpone the visit to a date that was more suitable as my family member would have had the valuation happen whilst sleeping after a night shift and with another one that night. 
    The landlord didn’t even wait to see what my family member would say. The visit would have never been hindered. It just needed to be carried out at a different date. I just said this is another of those things that makes the LL look bad and that they can’t force entry unless it’s an emergency, which this wasn’t. 
    Thanks in advance for any replies. I am stressing that my family member is cooperating and understanding the arrears are causing the LL big issues and they absolutely want to pay those, but if they cannot raise the money in time we are asking what can be done to at least maybe delay the eviction if it goes to court and if any of those things I mentioned can help stall the eviction somehow. 
     

    If the section 8 was delivered with no name and no proof of postage then yes, they could deny ever receiving it to buy themselves some time.

    The LL should indeed be repairing the boiler, but sounds like the LL is perhaps inexperienced as well as struggling for money, so they are no doubt refusing to repair the boiler DUE to the rent arrears, not BECASUE of them e.g. they CANNOT afford to pay for the repair. It's not a good way to run a business, but not everyone has good business sense. 

    If you're worried the LL is going to enter without permission, then just change the lock barrel and change it back at the end of the tenancy.

    Ultimately, it seems the LL has no money, and was counting on full rent paid with minimum repair costs. The fact they're looking to sell says it all.

    It might be sensible for your relative to have a tea and cake conversation with the LL and see if they can help each other out. Your relative will probably have to move. They will need a good reference from the LL. The LL needs to rent paid and needs to sell. 



    Thanks for your reply. You are like the first person we spoke to about this online who is showing some kindness in their answer about such a matter. 
    Also, you are the first one who seems to agree (with me personally at least) that claiming non receipt of the notice could be a possibility here for my relative, if they were forced to use that to buy some time. 

    The landlord is using an agency to deal with everything, but after he went to drop my relative a letter himself, him and my relative started speaking to each other directly, instead of using the agency and they have been friendly to each other so far. LL also agreed on the fact that it might be better for them to communicate directly. 
    LL said he really doesn’t want to go to court as it will cost him more money and agency had stated he is not rich. That was clear. My relative said they believe this is the first time he bought a property and that they are renting. They got a mortgage on the property. 
    Family member said more than once they found out LL was behind with paying the service charge for the property to the company managing the block of flats and this long before any arrears were ever a problem and also with other things. 
    I did wonder that if a couple of months of unpaid rent were putting him in a situation where he cannot afford a boiler repair, what would he have done if he had to fork out money for a new boiler altogether or something even more expensive? 

    Lucky enough, having a good reference from this LL won’t be necessary but I won’t go into detail about this thing. The thing is my relative cannot move as they have no income at the moment, let alone any deposit money for another property and their credit history is bad. No agency would rent to them at present, that’s for sure. They would have to find a landlord who doesn’t do credit checks and sort out the other two issues first. They can move back with family in our native country as a last resort but that would cause other issues and be expensive. 

    I wanted to ask… if my relative brings the total arrears under 2 months, if this goes to court, would the judge be more inclined to grant LL possession or would the stuff the LL did and the fact that family member can prove they did all they could to pay the arrears and cooperate, despite the LL refusing the boiler repair instead, for example, make him more inclined to suspend the eviction process? An eviction would be a disaster obviously and cause hardship. LL did include the persistent unpaid rent ground too by the way in the notice. Think it’s number 11 and 10 included too. I know 10 and 11 are discretionary grounds and not mandatory like number 8. 

    Thanks again and sorry for the questions. Just trying to help family as best as I can. Have already loaned them some money to help with this but it is not enough. 
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 15,583 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Depends what evidence landlord/agent has of delivery of notice, and how the judge views that.  Notice just needs to be served, not necessarily read. 

    For example if landlord hand-delivered , with photos & videos, witnessed, with signed proof,  by the local bishop then I suspect judge would accept that. (I'm atheist btw .. but an evil landlord...)

    BTW only 1p needs underpaying for only 1 day for an s8g10 to be valid, albeit judge unlikely to evict for this discretionary ground.  What grounds were given?? Presumably g8, 10 & 11??  If so then that notice is no longer mandatory if, at the time of court hearing, the arrears is then less than needed for g8 (usually 2 months..) - so judge can decide not t evict.

    Further, judge may "reduce" arrears due to repairs needed - that the landlord may think ain't needed.. see
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/possession_and_eviction/tenant_defences_to_possession/tenant_defence_and_counterclaim_process#counterclaim-against-the-landlord


  • BadBehaviour
    BadBehaviour Posts: 317 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    Depends what evidence landlord/agent has of delivery of notice, and how the judge views that.  Notice just needs to be served, not necessarily read. 

    For example if landlord hand-delivered , with photos & videos, witnessed, with signed proof,  by the local bishop then I suspect judge would accept that. (I'm atheist btw .. but an evil landlord...)

    BTW only 1p needs underpaying for only 1 day for an s8g10 to be valid, albeit judge unlikely to evict for this discretionary ground.  What grounds were given?? Presumably g8, 10 & 11??  If so then that notice is no longer mandatory if, at the time of court hearing, the arrears is then less than needed for g8 (usually 2 months..) - so judge can decide not t evict.

    Further, judge may "reduce" arrears due to repairs needed - that the landlord may think ain't needed.. see
    https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/possession_and_eviction/tenant_defences_to_possession/tenant_defence_and_counterclaim_process#counterclaim-against-the-landlord


    Thank you for the reply and for being polite, especially being a LL yourself. It was in my reply to the previous comment that there are grounds 10 and 11 too, yes. 

    The guy from the agency dropped the notice. There is no one who witnessed this, let alone anyone with any standing like a bishop etc (too long to explain how we know, but the agent acted alone and he didn’t take any photos or videos). 
    The only people who could have come with him are the other two only employees and even if they had been present, they are not independent third parties as they are all part of the estate agency acting on behalf of the landlord. The gist is he had no independent witness with him. We know they only have to prove they served it. Not that it was received or read. 

    The goal is to pay off all arrears or, second best thing, to get them below two months as much as possible, so that a judge would not be forced to grant the eviction and we hope in this case that the cooperation shown and the attempts made at paying back the arrears would be taken into consideration. My relative has always answered the door and not ignored agents etc and their communications about arrears.
    The final goal is anyway to not be in arrears until the end of the tenancy agreement, when anyway we would expect the LL to serve the 21 notice and not want to renew of course after all this. We don’t expect any LL to renew a tenancy after persistent arrears. Even if they were paid off. That is just common sense. 

    We in the family are working to help financially so my relative can put together enough to cover the arrears. Hopefully we succeed. 
  • theartfullodger
    theartfullodger Posts: 15,583 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    It's up to judge to decide who/what to believe and evaluate any evidence.  

    Tis why they are called a judge....
  • RAS
    RAS Posts: 34,952 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    A couple of things. 

    Your relative will not be renewing the tenancy at the end of the fixed period. It will automatically "rollover" into a periodic tenancy and your relative will have to give the required notice if they want to end the tenancy.

    Agencies are often either ignorant or blatantly lie about periodic tenancies until it comes to enforcing the notice period. So your relative needs to read their tenancy agreement carefully. If it says nothing, then it will be a statutory period tenancy.

    So your relative needs to plan for rental costs beyond the end of the tenancy, although they can leave of the last day of the fixed tenancy without notice. But not a day later.

    If the landlord has a mortgage, their monthly bill will have increased massively if their fixed deal has ended and the cost may be more than the rent after taxes. If they have not been paying service charges, this might be because there is a dispute, but if they are in arrears their freeholder can add the cost to their mortgage making even more expensive. If being a landlord is a financial drain, the landlord may well join the large numbers selling up and serve an S21 (no fault) notice.



    If you've have not made a mistake, you've made nothing
  • LightFlare
    LightFlare Posts: 1,385 Forumite
    1,000 Posts First Anniversary Name Dropper
    edited 12 January at 9:59AM
    The OP already states the person in question admits to having received the notice.

    To then suggest they claim process hasn’t been followed and there is no proof they received it could end in a less than favourable way, making a bad situation even worse.

    There seems to be a theme on these fora of suggesting people deny something they have already admitted - not very good advice imo

    Proof of service can be subject to levels of probability. BUT if a judge (for example) asked the LL if he/she had served and then asked the Tenant if they had received - I wouldn’t suggest claims of ignorance or lying would be wise.

    The simple fact that arrears are being paid would to some suggest that service was completed - people dont usually just decide to pay arrears out of the blue

    Best stick to facts and truth
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 25,972 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I’m a bit confused why people would suggest perjury? Besides that, the agent will probably have videos of the notice being put through the letterbox. 


    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • BadBehaviour
    BadBehaviour Posts: 317 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 100 Posts Combo Breaker
    RAS said:
    A couple of things. 

    Your relative will not be renewing the tenancy at the end of the fixed period. It will automatically "rollover" into a periodic tenancy and your relative will have to give the required notice if they want to end the tenancy.

    Agencies are often either ignorant or blatantly lie about periodic tenancies until it comes to enforcing the notice period. So your relative needs to read their tenancy agreement carefully. If it says nothing, then it will be a statutory period tenancy.

    So your relative needs to plan for rental costs beyond the end of the tenancy, although they can leave of the last day of the fixed tenancy without notice. But not a day later.

    If the landlord has a mortgage, their monthly bill will have increased massively if their fixed deal has ended and the cost may be more than the rent after taxes. If they have not been paying service charges, this might be because there is a dispute, but if they are in arrears their freeholder can add the cost to their mortgage making even more expensive. If being a landlord is a financial drain, the landlord may well join the large numbers selling up and serve an S21 (no fault) notice.



    What I meant was simply no landlord is gonna want to renew a tenancy when the tenant has had problems paying the rent etc. They would serve a notice 21 and not renew the agreement for another year. That's what I meant.
    It's the logical behaviour here for anyone in this situation with a tenant. 
    If my relative managed to stay until the end of the tenancy term he knows anyway he would have to leave anyway because there is no way the landlord would renew with him. 

    The S21 has to be served in the last 2 months of the tenancy term? I am asking. I don't think LL can serve that one during the tenancy anyway. 

    The LL problems with paying stuff all pre-date any rent arrears etc. It was something that would happen and my relative would receive notices or letters for the LL etc. At that time he was paying the rent fine. He paid the rent fine for years. Never a problem until he lost his job recently. 


    The OP already states the person in question admits to having received the notice.

    To then suggest they claim process hasn’t been followed and there is no proof they received it could end in a less than favourable way, making a bad situation even worse.

    There seems to be a theme on these fora of suggesting people deny something they have already admitted - not very good advice imo

    Proof of service can be subject to levels of probability. BUT if a judge (for example) asked the LL if he/she had served and then asked the Tenant if they had received - I wouldn’t suggest claims of ignorance or lying would be wise.

    The simple fact that arrears are being paid would to some suggest that service was completed - people dont usually just decide to pay arrears out of the blue

    Best stick to facts and truth
    My relative hasn't acknowledged the notice. There's nothing in writing from him saying he received it. Not an email or message etc. He was paying the arrears because he knew he had them. Don't need a notice to know you're in arrears. He is not that kind of tenant who stops paying and ignores anything and anyone after. He is cooperating and communicating with the agency and LL. But he hasn't actually said he received a notice anywhere in writing or verbally even to them. 
    As far as we know there's no video or pictures of the notice being served. Would be the agent's word only. He had no witnesses either. Is his word enough in court? Thanks. 
  • user1977
    user1977 Posts: 17,318 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Seventh Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper

    The OP already states the person in question admits to having received the notice.

    To then suggest they claim process hasn’t been followed and there is no proof they received it could end in a less than favourable way, making a bad situation even worse.

    There seems to be a theme on these fora of suggesting people deny something they have already admitted - not very good advice imo

    Proof of service can be subject to levels of probability. BUT if a judge (for example) asked the LL if he/she had served and then asked the Tenant if they had received - I wouldn’t suggest claims of ignorance or lying would be wise.

    The simple fact that arrears are being paid would to some suggest that service was completed - people dont usually just decide to pay arrears out of the blue

    Best stick to facts and truth
    As far as we know there's no video or pictures of the notice being served. Would be the agent's word only. He had no witnesses either. Is his word enough in court? Thanks. 
    How would you know if there were video/pictures?

    It only needs to be proved on the balance of probabilities, so yes, if the agency gives testimony about them producing and delivering the notice then that's going to be sufficient (unless your relative is planning to lie in court and sound any more convincing than the agency).
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