Section 8 hand-delivery questions

RAS

@BadBehaviour

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

BUT an S21 does not terminate the tenancy. It is just notice that the landlord may, if they wish, start court proceedings if the tenant does not leave by the notified date (usually 2 months). It takes some months for possession to be granted.

It's worth pointing out that if your relative manages to find accommodation before the deadline, they still have to give the required notice if they are leaving before the deadline. And that if they need an extra week or two, they should negotiate with the LL, like wise ask for an early surrender if the can leave earlier. It must be in writing. 

LightFlare

RAS said:

@LightFlare

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

BUT an S21 does not terminate the tenancy. It is just notice that the landlord may, if they wish, start court proceedings if the tenant does not leave by the notified date (usually 2 months). It takes some months for possession to be granted.

It's worth pointing out that if your relative manages to find accommodation before the deadline, they still have to give the required notice if they are leaving before the deadline. And that if they need an extra week or two, they should negotiate with the LL, like wise ask for an early surrender if the can leave earlier. It must be in writing. 

It’s not my relative.

S21 isn’t actually required anyway since the tennant is in arrears so a S8 is “easier” for the LL to get posession

BadBehaviour

user1977 said:

BadBehaviour said:

LightFlare said:

The OP already states the person in question admits to having received the notice.

To then suggest they claim process hasn’t been followed and there is no proof they received it could end in a less than favourable way, making a bad situation even worse.

There seems to be a theme on these fora of suggesting people deny something they have already admitted - not very good advice imo

Proof of service can be subject to levels of probability. BUT if a judge (for example) asked the LL if he/she had served and then asked the Tenant if they had received - I wouldn’t suggest claims of ignorance or lying would be wise.

The simple fact that arrears are being paid would to some suggest that service was completed - people dont usually just decide to pay arrears out of the blue

Best stick to facts and truth

As far as we know there's no video or pictures of the notice being served. Would be the agent's word only. He had no witnesses either. Is his word enough in court? Thanks. 

How would you know if there were video/pictures?

It only needs to be proved on the balance of probabilities, so yes, if the agency gives testimony about them producing and delivering the notice then that's going to be sufficient (unless your relative is planning to lie in court and sound any more convincing than the agency).

We know but too long too explain now how. My relative knows they don't have video proof or pics or this. 

Well, first notice served was served in my relative's hands. Second notice, this one we're discussing, was just dropped into the postbox despite my relative being at home and not having previously shown a behaviour that would make the agent think he wouldn't answer the door etc as my relative always answered any time agents showed up, even with previous notice. 
He could argue why this time there was 0 attempt at trying to delivering it into his hands. There was no knock on his door etc. Was all done silently and agent knows relative was home. 
It could be argued that this doesn't follow previous behaviour from the agent etc. He could have served it like the first time but didn't. They know very well my relative didn't ignore them at all and has been cooperating. There are emails etc proving this and more.
Wouldn't a judge then think "maybe they're telling the truth that it wasn't served this time because he could have just tried to give it directly to the tenant but for some reason this time opted to do it all silently". Don't know but if I were the judge I could believe it might have not been served considering what I just explained. 
And that relative was home can be proved as well! 

RAS

LightFlare said:

RAS said:

@LightFlare

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

BUT an S21 does not terminate the tenancy. It is just notice that the landlord may, if they wish, start court proceedings if the tenant does not leave by the notified date (usually 2 months). It takes some months for possession to be granted.

It's worth pointing out that if your relative manages to find accommodation before the deadline, they still have to give the required notice if they are leaving before the deadline. And that if they need an extra week or two, they should negotiate with the LL, like wise ask for an early surrender if the can leave earlier. It must be in writing. 

It’s not my relative.

S21 isn’t actually required anyway since the tennant is in arrears so a S8 is “easier” for the LL to get posession

Thanks, I'll edit.

RAS

LightFlare said:

RAS said:

@LightFlare

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

BUT an S21 does not terminate the tenancy. It is just notice that the landlord may, if they wish, start court proceedings if the tenant does not leave by the notified date (usually 2 months). It takes some months for possession to be granted.

It's worth pointing out that if your relative manages to find accommodation before the deadline, they still have to give the required notice if they are leaving before the deadline. And that if they need an extra week or two, they should negotiate with the LL, like wise ask for an early surrender if the can leave earlier. It must be in writing. 

It’s not my relative.

S21 isn’t actually required anyway since the tennant is in arrears so a S8 is “easier” for the LL to get posession

An S21 is guaranteed. S8 is generally discretionary, if the relative gets the debt below 2xthe rent.

Both require further action if the tenant refuses to move out.

user1977

BadBehaviour said:

user1977 said:

BadBehaviour said:

LightFlare said:

The OP already states the person in question admits to having received the notice.

To then suggest they claim process hasn’t been followed and there is no proof they received it could end in a less than favourable way, making a bad situation even worse.

There seems to be a theme on these fora of suggesting people deny something they have already admitted - not very good advice imo

Proof of service can be subject to levels of probability. BUT if a judge (for example) asked the LL if he/she had served and then asked the Tenant if they had received - I wouldn’t suggest claims of ignorance or lying would be wise.

The simple fact that arrears are being paid would to some suggest that service was completed - people dont usually just decide to pay arrears out of the blue

Best stick to facts and truth

As far as we know there's no video or pictures of the notice being served. Would be the agent's word only. He had no witnesses either. Is his word enough in court? Thanks. 

How would you know if there were video/pictures?

It only needs to be proved on the balance of probabilities, so yes, if the agency gives testimony about them producing and delivering the notice then that's going to be sufficient (unless your relative is planning to lie in court and sound any more convincing than the agency).

We know but too long too explain now how. My relative knows they don't have video proof or pics or this. 

Well, first notice served was served in my relative's hands. Second notice, this one we're discussing, was just dropped into the postbox despite my relative being at home and not having previously shown a behaviour that would make the agent think he wouldn't answer the door etc as my relative always answered any time agents showed up, even with previous notice. 
He could argue why this time there was 0 attempt at trying to delivering it into his hands. There was no knock on his door etc. Was all done silently and agent knows relative was home. 
It could be argued that this doesn't follow previous behaviour from the agent etc. He could have served it like the first time but didn't. They know very well my relative didn't ignore them at all and has been cooperating. There are emails etc proving this and more.
Wouldn't a judge then think "maybe they're telling the truth that it wasn't served this time". Don't know but if I were the judge I could believe it might have not been served considering what I just explained. 
And that relative was home can be proved as well! 

If your relative is going to lie about it anyway, what does it matter whether it was actually served into their hands or through the door?

LightFlare

RAS said:

LightFlare said:

RAS said:

@LightFlare

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

BUT an S21 does not terminate the tenancy. It is just notice that the landlord may, if they wish, start court proceedings if the tenant does not leave by the notified date (usually 2 months). It takes some months for possession to be granted.

It's worth pointing out that if your relative manages to find accommodation before the deadline, they still have to give the required notice if they are leaving before the deadline. And that if they need an extra week or two, they should negotiate with the LL, like wise ask for an early surrender if the can leave earlier. It must be in writing. 

It’s not my relative.

S21 isn’t actually required anyway since the tennant is in arrears so a S8 is “easier” for the LL to get posession

An S21 is guaranteed. S8 is generally discretionary, if the relative gets the debt below 2xthe rent.

Both require further action if the tenant refuses to move out.

My layman’s understanding was that a S8 was generally “quicker” and cut and dry than a S21

Every day is a school day. 

The OP has on multiple occasions confirmed that notice was served,delivered and received

I still maintain that any attempts to suggest otherwise could end up badly

theartfullodger

RAS said:

@BadBehaviour

The landlord can not issue an S21 notice that ends within the fixed term. Once it becomes a periodic tenancy, they can issue the S21 notice anytime.

They can issue an s21 in that ends )expires to be precise ) in fixed term, no problem, but it won't be valid.  Sigh!

RAS

The relative is going to have to leave the property at some point in the near future, whether after an S8 or S21 notice. But it would be unfortunate if BadBehaviour gave them incorrect advice about the notice required in different circumstances. They don't need suing or losing deposit because they leave without giving the right notice and failing to organise an early surrender, in addition to anything rental debt.

Hopefully the relative can get back into employment soon and find alternative accommodation. Meantime, getting found out making untrue claims in court is more likely to mean the judge uses their discretion to grant possession than to delay it.