MET Parking Stansted Starbucks after closing

parkingoffender

Hello all, (late) happy new year!

So late December I had to pick someone up from Stansted and since they were late exiting the airport I parked at the Southgate car park by the Starbucks (near McDonalds) to wait for them. 

Entering the carpark I saw signs saying it's a Customer only car park and there's a free 60 min parking period, all seemed good. Quick look from inside the car at the Parking sign before me saying what to do and what not to do (parking between lines, etc) it did not mention anything I could see from a few metres away about not being able to wait a few mins.
Being there late and dark, Starbucks was closed, and since I didn't feel like going to McDonalds for anything (having read other people's reports around here that would have earned me another parking ticket still), I thought I'd just wait in the car. Around 20 mins later I left without a worry.

Fast forward to a few days ago and I got a NTK saying I owe them £100. Not understanding exactly why I got this I looked on Google Maps and Joe Lycett's video about this very car park to see what all the signs they have say and (although both the google imagery and Joe's video are years old and somewhat too low resolution to fully make out) it seems that there was yet another sign somewhere behind where I parked that says you can pay by phone. Hadn't seen that one since it was dark and I wasn't expecting a different sign from what was sort of in front of the car.

In hindsight I do feel a bit silly for not having walked around the car park and spent a good 10 mins rigurously reading the myriad of signs in small font terms and conditions, but I would have absolutely paid had they made it obvious at the entrance they required payment for parking after Starbucks closes. 

Now I have read around the forum a bit and while it's a bit overwhelming, I think my notice is PoFA worded (posting it below), so I am thinking there's no point in trying to pretend the vehicle's keeper isn't liable.

My questions are:

- Is this NTK really POFA?
   - If it is, then do I still have a way of fighting this since it feels I'm in the wrong due to being a bit of an idiot? 
   - Is it worth trying to go the route of arguing their parking lot is not relevant land given that it's within the airport's site boundaries?

Thank you in advance!

Here's the NTK:

Gr1pr

If its not relevant land,  then pofa schedule 4 doesn't apply, so no keeper liability,  regardless of what the pcn says 

But 

They can still go after the driver for the alleged breach of the parking contract,  POFA doesn't assist a driver 

Only a judge in Civil court can decide if you are liable or not,  as the driver 

It could be that no contract was offered,  so could technically be trespassing 

There are no easy answers 

Coupon-mad

Yes there are!

Of course you don't pay it.  That's the main message and easy answer here.

Try an appeal, then a POPLA appeal as keeper.  First point: non-POFA because it's not relevant land. Second point: no landowner authority. Third point: the driver (who will not be named) only saw the sign at the entrance that offers 60 mins free, no caveats.  This is because it was pitch black, no lighting on any hidden other signs that may or may not have been there and no payment machines, therefore the driver had no reason to think it was a payment site. They accepted the offer that was legible in the dark: 60 minutes free. 

parkingoffender

Thank you! I will proceed with an appeal and report back either way

Car1980

"In hindsight I do feel a bit silly for not having walked around the car park and spent a good 10 mins rigurously reading the myriad of signs in small font terms and conditions."

Ipso facto that you would need to do that means the contract is likely unenforceable.

parkingoffender

@Car1980 The more I look into this the more I realise what a can of worms they are

Gr1pr

Definitely a can of worms,  which is what I meant 

You have been given 2 excellent strategies that may be successful,  but no easy options like an invoice from Smart parking,  with stock templates 

If popla understand the appeal points laid out in the appeal strategy,  you may be successful,  but popla have made some very dubious decisions regarding airports etc recently,  especially Stabsted , so no guarantees 

Coupon-mad

However, dark signs is always worth pushing at POPLA stage because I doubt MET have photos of those signs at night.

parkingoffender

Well surprise surprise they replied to the keeper saying the appeal has failed and have invited to either pay or appeal via POPLA which is what's gonna happen.

Here are some key screenshots of their reply:



This is followed by options to either pay, appeal via POPLA, or do nothing and wait for debt recovery.
Below that they included what looks like screenshots (not photos) of their various parking signs they have around.

My observations on the above are as follows:
- They're saying it is considered to have been received the second working day after they sent it, unless I can prove otherwise. This absolutely did not happen, it arrived more than two weeks after. I'm pretty sure they don't send those via RM first class or tracked.
- The signs they screenshotted in their reply do not include the sign that I saw in front of me. Conveniently that one is a bit different from what they showed, AND most importantly is not accompanied by a second sign that mentions paying by phone (like it is elsewhere in that parking lot). Now I do not remember what the sign said exactly, but it looks the same as I can see on Google street view:

Here's the sign I parked in front of (from Google street view):


And here's other signs from the same car park, that I didn't see that night. The resolution isn't great but there's clearly a Pay By Phone signs unlike thhe one above:


Now the Street view photos are a good number of years old, but the one that was in front of me looks identical. I may even drive there and take some pictures to have as evidence, as this is clearly a trap. Hope this is useful to other people too.

I am tempted to ask the keeper to wait the maximum time I can before appealing via POPLA, just because MET are playing dirty, but I am grateful for any suggestions people around here may have.

Thank you!

Coupon-mad

No need to delay POPLA.

Do the usual points from post 3 of the NEWBIES thread but the first one will be unlit signs

parkingoffender

Thank you. I have spent an obscene amount of time putting together an apeal (I am terrible at it), but as long as they don't get away with mugging me off, it's time well spent. I will update when I hear back.