Advice required regards employment situation rights - location of work

Mistermeaner

hi

Apologies in advance for long post but bit of story to this one, will keep it as brief as possible but looking for general advice / thoughts regards my situation

I am employed by large multinational that has a relatively small presence in UK ~200 employees. I am a middle manager (senior for UK) reporting into a boss in the USA.

I joined the company as an XXX manager specific to location YYYY. Several years ago location YYYY was closed (with lots of folk made redundant) but I was offered the same XXX manager job at location ZZZZ which happens to be about 3 hours drive from where i live and location YYYY. I agreed to take the job and spoke about travel and location at the time and agreed with my US manager i would do '2 or 3 days every fortnight'. I manage a team at location ZZZZ and have frequent contact with them and folk at location ZZZZ but also frequently deal with people at another UK location and all over the US, mostly via TEAMs.

In addition to this I have a heart condition which can at times make me very weak and dizzy, i've managed work OK but because of this do not do any international travel which the company has been fine with.

I have been doing (give or take) the 2 days at location ZZZZ every other week, driving up in the morning on work time, staying in a hotel then driving back in the evening in my own time on day 2. My reviews with my boss have been fine my ratings fine and generally i think i am well thought of. I dont go above and beyond but i am certainly professional and do what is required. I have no interest in promotion at all or doing any extra so i dont stretch myself but im a solid average performer.

All has been OK for a couple of years but recently a new senior guy has joined location ZZZZ - he is not my manager but is responsible for the location and has some clout. He has recently started insisting i am at location ZZZZ more and is starting to create some tension and issues between us as I am saying no to stuff. He has drafted a set of objectives he wants me to achieve in 2025 a number of which are IMO petty micromanaging and state things like 'attend face to face meetings with persons a, b, c, d, e, f, g at location ZZZZ every fortnight' / 'attend in person X meetings per month at location ZZZZ' - the objectives are such that there is no way i can attend all these required meetings in person within the 2 days per fortnight i have been doing and i am not prepared to do any more travel to accomodate these requests. I have asked the senior guy if TEAMs is an option and he has refused saying they must be in person, reasons were vague but something along lines of building relationships.

In terms of my contract of employment it states work location is YYYY (the original place that closed) but could be anywhere in UK. Also states my hours are 8-4 or as may be reasonably adjusted for business needs but never exceeding the total of 37.5 per week. There is no requirement for overseas travel.

Just wondering given all this where i might stand - like how hard can the guy at location ZZZZ insist i am there in person? How much can i put my foot down and say no? I appreciate the contract says 'anywhere in the UK' but surely that cant be simply enforced as glibly as that particularly given things like the working hours.... or if they insist i work there every day then surely the travel time will be in those work hours so i'll do just 2 hours in the office and spend 6 hours travelling there and back (no overnights or travel on my own time)

My view is the guy doesn't like that i have an arrangement outside of his control and to be fair if i resigned they would recruit someone there full time, however it is what it is the company agreed to my 2/3 days and history shows it has been working - i think he is being unreasonable in trying to set these objectives and the refusal to make reasonable adjustments (e.g. using TEAMs) is just unreasonable. I am minded to stand firm on this and see what they do but welcome the thoughts of others

NB I haven't made much issue of it yet but I also have the option of raising my heart condition as a further reason not to travel (excessively)

Thanks

Wonka_2

Having been in a similar situation a couple of points need clarity. You mention agreeing ‘2 or 3 days per fortnight’ but then say ‘give or take you’re doing 2 days per fortnight’ and of those with travel it’s actually closer to 1.5 days ??

is any of the agreement in writing ?

You also state you contract says hours will never exceed 37.5 per week ? An unusual clause - is this what it actually says ? And what does it say about UK business travel ? 

As you’ve eluded to your medical condition may give you options - but it’s unlikely to be career enhancing so depends on your age and future plans 

Mistermeaner

Hi thanks for reply

2 or 3 days was discussed verbally - never anything in writing 

in Practice it’s working out 1.5 days in office as I travel in the morning day 1 and back in evening day 2. On occasion ive stayed 2 nights but then travel back in afternoon of day 3. IMO the travel time should be in work time 

contract is a bit strange it states (word for word)

your normal place of work will be XXXX but you may be required to work at any other uk location. You are not required to work outside the uk 

your normal hours of work are 8-4 Mon-Fri with half hour unpaid break 

you are required to be contactable for emergencies 

you will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the performance of duties for which you will receive no additional payment 

the company reserves the right to vary your normal hours of work to meet business needs but without increasing the maximum number of daily working hours 



Interesting question whether all the hours away from home count as ‘work hours’ - ie when I’m stuck in a hotel room 200 miles from home leaving the missus with all the kids to sort it’s not like I’m having a great time ! 

thanks 

Wonka_2

Mistermeaner said:

contract is a bit strange it states (word for word)

your normal place of work will be XXXX but you may be required to work at any other uk location. You are not required to work outside the uk 

your normal hours of work are 8-4 Mon-Fri with half hour unpaid break 

you are required to be contactable for emergencies 

you will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the performance of duties for which you will receive no additional payment 

the company reserves the right to vary your normal hours of work to meet business needs but without increasing the maximum number of daily working hours 



thanks 

As expected that’s very different from saying ‘never exceeds 37.5hrs per week’

Assuming a relatively senior role given Line management responsibilities you may have to be up for some negotiation if you want to stay/progress - especially given (some) US companies views of UK law. 

If you’re at a point where you don’t need to stay or you have an alternative then you play hardball based on custom & practice over the past years. Alternatively if you want to stay/progress then what’s the hardship of adding an extra day per fortnight assuming they’re paying expenses - maybe start with travelling both ways in company time giving you an extra half day on-site and be hard on timings to ensure all the meetings/objectives can be done in that time. 

Others may give a more ‘legal’ view but sometimes understanding your endgame and some pragmatism is needed 

Grumpy_chap

Mistermeaner said:

I joined the company as an XXX manager specific to location YYYY. Several years ago location YYYY was closed (with lots of folk made redundant) but I was offered the same XXX manager job at location ZZZZ 

NB I haven't made much issue of it yet but I also have the option of raising my heart condition as a further reason not to travel (excessively)

Mistermeaner said:

in Practice it’s working out 1.5 days in office as I travel in the morning day 1 and back in evening day 2. On occasion ive stayed 2 nights but then travel back in afternoon of day 3. IMO the travel time should be in work time 

you will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the performance of duties for which you will receive no additional payment 

You sound like you have a fairly senior role.
Seniority comes with rewards.
In return for the rewards, the employer usually wants their pound of flesh and half again.
It is quite uncommon for an individual in a senior role to have travel time within work hours.

You could raise your heart condition as a reason why you cannot perform the duties of the role.  The most likely route then will be a review by Occupational Health and resulting in dismissal on health grounds (whatever shape that takes).

You may be better to buckle down to the current role and, if it does not suit your requirements, seek an alternative that is a better match.

Wonka_2

Grumpy_chap said:

Mistermeaner said:

I joined the company as an XXX manager specific to location YYYY. Several years ago location YYYY was closed (with lots of folk made redundant) but I was offered the same XXX manager job at location ZZZZ 

NB I haven't made much issue of it yet but I also have the option of raising my heart condition as a further reason not to travel (excessively)

Mistermeaner said:

in Practice it’s working out 1.5 days in office as I travel in the morning day 1 and back in evening day 2. On occasion ive stayed 2 nights but then travel back in afternoon of day 3. IMO the travel time should be in work time 

you will be required to work such additional hours as may be necessary for the performance of duties for which you will receive no additional payment 

You sound like you have a fairly senior role.
Seniority comes with rewards.
In return for the rewards, the employer usually wants their pound of flesh and half again.
It is quite uncommon for an individual in a senior role to have travel time within work hours.

You could raise your heart condition as a reason why you cannot perform the duties of the role.  The most likely route then will be a review by Occupational Health and resulting in dismissal on health grounds (whatever shape that takes).

You may be better to buckle down to the current role and, if it does not suit your requirements, seek an alternative that is a better match.

You were a bit more succinct/direct than me 😉

LightFlare

Slightly off the subject, but as you mentioned it and I have recent personal jexperience along these lines -

Are you under any medical care etc for your heart issues ?

Have they given you any guidance on whether you should still be driving?

DVLA may also need to be informed along with your insurance company

Already some good comments above regarding location - have you actually considered relocation?
Yes, it’s a bit of a nuclear option but for the sake of your work life balance and health it may be worth serious consideration.

Alfrescodave

The details that I would be careful with are the actual hours worked at location ZZZZ. Management may not consider travel time as working time.

You say that the driving time is 3 hours, does that mean that you arrive after 10am and leave at 4pm ? If so this could be seen (by local manager) as possible lack of committment. I would certainly be staying until well after 6pm as a means of working the required hours.  Especially if you're staying overnight in a hotel.

Mistermeaner

Thanks all for input 

I’m not interested at all in promotion or bothered about my career - I’m at that stage , albeit quite young I guess at 45, where I’m not arsed about work at all - I have other priorities hence why I don’t want to be away. All the points regards expectations are taken and understood , 10 years ago I would be frowning at me thinking what a terrible attitude ….. be interesting to see what happens as I’m not going to concede on this; I will stretch to doing 2 nights (hence 3 day in office) albeit i travel on work time so they’ll get one afternoon one full day and one morning 

I think they’ll have a tough time if they try and take this further, regardless of the terms of my contract which imo are somewhat contradictory and potentially unenforceable (as taken literally they can require me to work unlimited hours without pay anywhere in the uk)

there is also lots of folk who aren’t being asked to go there likewise all sorts done on teams in other locations across the USA. In addition to my uk responsibilities I also have some global responsibilities which I manage fine remotely - I think the company will have a tough time finding a justification that I have to be in location ZZZ in order to do my job ,  it is just one guy agitating.

im prepared to stand firm on this and ultimately if they deem this unacceptable we’ll be in severance discussions in which case it will be more £ for me than simple dismissal IMO 

400ixl

Looking at the terms of your contract, if they can show a business need (which is typically quite easy) then yes, they can make the demands they are. Equally as you say, you can stand your ground as see if they try to enforce.

Whether you refusing gives them grounds that you are effectively resigning is one for the HR legal people to advise.

Mistermeaner

I’d likewise be interested in a legal opinion on the contract terms 

true the statements regards working anywhere and working additional hours are present but likewise there’s a clause regards my place of work and one regards hours not exceeding the daily total…..

also I would say the verbal discussion I had with my boss on taking this role regards 2or3 days every other week would have relevance as well 

surely as well an extra hours clause is unenforceable - like where does that stop … can they just keep giving me more and more work to do then fire me if I don’t complete it all because I refuse to do 18hr days 7 days a week?