How do I approach these issues?

Theleak250

I purchased a small flat a few years ago. Last year the tenant above changed. Since then there is a lot of noise coming from the flat above, mainly noise on the floor and you can hear them stomping about. They have dogs also in the tiny studio flat. They jump onto the floor in the night and wake me up, they also have toys to the dogs in the evening which you can hear for hours on the floor. I have audio recordings. The dogs bark at 6am sometimes. I had to change my whole work rota as I was constantly woken up early. When they first moved in I told the tenant and she brushed it off and stated she would put a rug down. Sometimes she is up at 5:30am, even before 5.

Now last year there was a leak from the flat above, it's a tiny leak which caused stains in one of the cupboards. The landlord stated he had a plumber out twice and was reported to have fixed it, however you still hear water dripping inside the ceiling, but it's very hit and miss and doesn't happen much.

So I have these two issues, I was going to contact the landlord again and state these two issues and ask if he can take action? is this the best method. I did mention the floor before when he visited about the leak, but it was kind of secondary as we were focusing on the leak.

I should add the tenancy states the floor must be carpeted or have sufficient sound proofing. It also states no animals can be kept without permission. I just don't want the situation to escalate. Because it will be more stressful and I am not sure it is worth it unless I have a way to make the landlord resolve the issue with the noise. I am not looking to sell up. The prices have gone down and I intend to have this flat until at least 2030. It is impacting my life now. But I get the feeling he is going to be difficult. If I have no strong method, she could make my life hell this tenant. I suspect he will need to get new flooring to resolve the issue. It is not normal, even for a wooden floor. It is raw noise as if there is nothing between the floor and floorboards.

Flugelhorn

is there a management company of any sort? are they aware of the animals? 

Theleak250

Flugelhorn said:

is there a management company of any sort? are they aware of the animals? 

Yes but they are pretty useless. I don't know if they are aware of the animals. Even without the animals, there would still be an issue mainly from the noise of them walking.

Maahes

A lot of what you describe is simply apartment living. You need to separate what you can address and what you can't. You can't dictate when people get up in the morning and if they have permission to keep a dog you can't do anything about that either. All dogs bark but there's difference between a dog barking for a short time and a dog barking incessantly. My dog woke me up at 5:30 this morning as she wanted to go out but now she's asleep. Similarly you can't dictate what toys an owner gives their pets.

If the lease agreement states that carpets must be used then go to the management company about that. If a leak damages your property make a claim on your insurance but ultimately you may have to accept that your neighbours are noisy people and there isn't much you're going to be able to do about that. I doubt the landlord is going to entertain replacing all the flooring in the property.

My daughter lived for years under a family who sounded like they had a shire horse living with them, it's not pleasant and ultimately they moved as the landlord wouldn't address it.

Murphybear

Maahes said:

A lot of what you describe is simply apartment living. You need to separate what you can address and what you can't. You can't dictate when people get up in the morning and if they have permission to keep a dog you can't do anything about that either. All dogs bark but there's difference between a dog barking for a short time and a dog barking incessantly. My dog woke me up at 5:30 this morning as she wanted to go out but now she's asleep. Similarly you can't dictate what toys an owner gives their pets.

If the lease agreement states that carpets must be used then go to the management company about that. If a leak damages your property make a claim on your insurance but ultimately you may have to accept that your neighbours are noisy people and there isn't much you're going to be able to do about that. I doubt the landlord is going to entertain replacing all the flooring in the property.

My daughter lived for years under a family who sounded like they had a shire horse living with them, it's not pleasant and ultimately they moved as the landlord wouldn't address it.

We lived in a flat that was part of a house conversion.  The girl in the flat above started practising her tap dancing.  . Fortunately a quick word in her ear and she apologised, gave us a bottle of wine and found somewhere else to practise.  

My experience over the years has been that converted flats are generally much noisier than purpose built.  I lived in a small ex council block in London and I could never hear anything from the people above.  

Useful thing to consider for anyone buying a flat 

eddddy

Theleak250 said:

So I have these two issues, I was going to contact the landlord again and state these two issues and ask if he can take action? is this the best method.

Just to clarify - when you say 'landlord'...

• Do you mean the leaseholder of the flat upstairs - who sublets their flat (making them a 'landlord')

• Or do you mean the freeholder - who in legal terms is your 'landlord' and the 'landlord' of the upstairs leaseholder?

You need to read your lease, but based on what you say it sounds like the leaseholder upstairs is breaching the lease in 2 ways

• 1) The leaseholder has not laid carpets

• 2) The leaseholder is allowing a dog to be kept in the flat, which is causing annoyance

If you can't resolve this through discussion with the leaseholder upstairs, most leases say that you can insist that the freeholder takes enforcement action against the leaseholder upstairs.

Normally, enforcement action would start with a letter from the freeholder to the leaseholder upstairs, telling them to stop breaching the lease, and warning that the freeholder will take legal action. That letter might be enough to resolve the situation.

gm0

Leasehold - If there is a rule on no hard floors must be carpeted.  You can press the freehold ma to push the other lessee for this to be followed. If there is a rule on no dogs same. 

Occasional minor clicking/dripping noises can be thermal pipe expansion and dry as a bone.  An actual leak is more likely to be regular albeit slow if no water visible and all the time.   Sadly inadequately secured pipework is very common indeed.  And *nobody* lifts expensive floors to dig it all up and do it again for that.  Heating and cooling causes a noise easily mistaken for a drip.

Complaints of this sort will result in a stiff letter from the managing agent to the leaseholder (landlord of the tenant if rented) regarding the issue.  This addresses the need to take action by the freeholder.  So the freeholder is not then negligent in their duty to you as the complaining lessee.  And then "nothing".    If you complain again - another letter - and so on.

In reality - there is no *proportionate remedy* or way for the freeholder to provide an incentive for action if the other lessee doesn't want to play ball.  Nothing in between "a letter saying the lease says this - do or don't do X" please comply / get your rental tenant to comply or change them out.

Clearly a small studio flat is not a great setting for multiple hounds.  But urban housing costs and inflation being what they are - people rent what they can find and afford.

For the other leaseholder - if a remedy is impossible (took tenant with dogs still in fixed term can't section 21. Up to date on rent).  Or just difficult or costly fittings retrofit - this sort of too difficult issue can be ignored happily for months or years.

The next step is "court action for forfeiture of the lease".  Freehold agents are reluctant to incur the costs of even starting this process.  So it's polite letter. Rude letter.  Letter before action. etc. Wait for people to move on.  Reset. Start again.

Actual legal action if it gets to that (after a long while and several iterations) there will be multiple trips to court if the lessee at any point says oh sorry my bad - your honour I will address the breach - action stayed - and finds a reason not to which drags on and still doesn't fix it.  And then freeholder queues up for court again - months later when it is clear cut the promise was a lie. It takes a *lot* of work to get to the audit trail for an actual forefeiture of a leasehold lease.  Or for a penalty to be imposed for lying to the court.  Which is arguably as it should be.  But the state of the court system makes this torture as the only mechanism to apply pressure.

At the rental tenant end - nobody is going to get rid of what they view as a family member (dog).  And if they were told by a letting agent that it's fine to bring the dog (or just not told it wasn't) at every stage of finding, screening, renting, depositing etc. They won't feel emotionally that your lease or their landlord's lease is *their* problem to solve.  Or indeed legally - depending on their tenancy agreement.  Hardly anybody downloads LR records to check what agents are lying about when renting.  It's not a sub-lease flowed down. Their contract is the tenancy with the landlord.  If it conflicts with the lease.  That's the freeholder/leaseholder's beef - if they are not causing a statutory nuisance (high bar).

In extremis - environmental health and "statutory nuisance" laws do apply to residential settings.  But normal living noises in a house not converted with adequate floor to floor soundproofing generally isn't in their remit.  Nor should it be.  And they will react accordingly i.e. ignore or humour complaints and not take action for "normal" noise.  Kid noise is basically exempt.  Dogs which rise early and bark when disturbed or need an overnight bathroom break is normal.

Dogs *left alone* barking all day - can become a formal "nuisance" as can running businesses 24x7 where you should not be doing so. 

Testing whether flats meet building regulations for noise - can be done.  And occasionally with new developments where it is obvious this is woefully deficient at construction.  Claims, testing and retrofit (to get over the bar - not necessarily to get to a really good standard) then happens.  Out of warranty - most lessees are not keen to start a costly to them process which lifts all floor coverings, opens up walls and destroys all decor and most likely requires moving out (or moving out tenants)

theartfullodger

Suggest you contact their landlord (ie not to mngmt company) about all these issues (calm & polite).

Spend £3 with gov.uk land registry & you will get name & address of owner.  Take it from there...worth a try..


https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/

Takes me less than 5 minutes... 

Theleak250

Maahes said:

A lot of what you describe is simply apartment living. You need to separate what you can address and what you can't. You can't dictate when people get up in the morning and if they have permission to keep a dog you can't do anything about that either. All dogs bark but there's difference between a dog barking for a short time and a dog barking incessantly. My dog woke me up at 5:30 this morning as she wanted to go out but now she's asleep. Similarly you can't dictate what toys an owner gives their pets.

If the lease agreement states that carpets must be used then go to the management company about that. If a leak damages your property make a claim on your insurance but ultimately you may have to accept that your neighbours are noisy people and there isn't much you're going to be able to do about that. I doubt the landlord is going to entertain replacing all the flooring in the property.

My daughter lived for years under a family who sounded like they had a shire horse living with them, it's not pleasant and ultimately they moved as the landlord wouldn't address it.

I have lived in flats my entire life. I know what is normal and what isn’t. I have no intention of trying to tell people how to live, I am simply suggesting the situation is worse because of poor flooring. I have no wish to start a war with them, hence I don’t know if it’s worth the hassle. But thanks. I would disagree about dogs barking at 5:30. That will cause issues with others, not just me if it goes on. 

Theleak250

eddddy said:

Theleak250 said:

So I have these two issues, I was going to contact the landlord again and state these two issues and ask if he can take action? is this the best method.

Just to clarify - when you say 'landlord'...

• Do you mean the leaseholder of the flat upstairs - who sublets their flat (making them a 'landlord')

• Or do you mean the freeholder - who in legal terms is your 'landlord' and the 'landlord' of the upstairs leaseholder?

You need to read your lease, but based on what you say it sounds like the leaseholder upstairs is breaching the lease in 2 ways

• 1) The leaseholder has not laid carpets

• 2) The leaseholder is allowing a dog to be kept in the flat, which is causing annoyance

If you can't resolve this through discussion with the leaseholder upstairs, most leases say that you can insist that the freeholder takes enforcement action against the leaseholder upstairs.

Normally, enforcement action would start with a letter from the freeholder to the leaseholder upstairs, telling them to stop breaching the lease, and warning that the freeholder will take legal action. That letter might be enough to resolve the situation.

I mean the lease holder who in turn lets out the flat to a tenant.

i understand however the management company is terrible so i am a bit restricted in that regard. I couldn’t even get them to send a letter about the leak as they claimed they didn’t have the landlords details. Eventually I found them another way. 

Theleak250

Murphybear said:

Maahes said:

A lot of what you describe is simply apartment living. You need to separate what you can address and what you can't. You can't dictate when people get up in the morning and if they have permission to keep a dog you can't do anything about that either. All dogs bark but there's difference between a dog barking for a short time and a dog barking incessantly. My dog woke me up at 5:30 this morning as she wanted to go out but now she's asleep. Similarly you can't dictate what toys an owner gives their pets.

If the lease agreement states that carpets must be used then go to the management company about that. If a leak damages your property make a claim on your insurance but ultimately you may have to accept that your neighbours are noisy people and there isn't much you're going to be able to do about that. I doubt the landlord is going to entertain replacing all the flooring in the property.

My daughter lived for years under a family who sounded like they had a shire horse living with them, it's not pleasant and ultimately they moved as the landlord wouldn't address it.

We lived in a flat that was part of a house conversion.  The girl in the flat above started practising her tap dancing.  . Fortunately a quick word in her ear and she apologised, gave us a bottle of wine and found somewhere else to practise.  

My experience over the years has been that converted flats are generally much noisier than purpose built.  I lived in a small ex council block in London and I could never hear anything from the people above.  

Useful thing to consider for anyone buying a flat 

I would say to anyone buying a flat, stay away from wooden floors. Concrete only.