Living the Good Life - mortgage free and living in line with our values

themadvix

Just wanted to pop back and say thanks for all your thoughts everyone - we were out yesterday just after I posted and now we're about to head out for a walk, but I will return and respond properly.

@rtandon27 no, no drawings whatsoever and I don't even think the installers had drawings. There was no firm plan before they turned up and Mr MV mentioned what the pre-installation visit guy had mentioned (without being firm about it). Don't get Mr MV started on the lack of detail with the whole thing!

themadvix

Greying_Pilgrim said:

I think your observational note is totally valid - it is your house, and your money invested after all.  And your bit about the "surveyor" being uninvolved in the installation process/work rings true for alot of the trades - BUT you're right in that this is "new-ish" technology, which is supposed to work in a variety of abodes, and the stuff that you've described does have implications - not just aesthetically - for the homeowner, and future owners, but for the promotion of the technology to others, considering the uptake of it.  

I hope 🐙listen to you and do do something to rectify the situation.  Even if you weren't a 'poster address' for the promotion of heat pump installation in your town/county/area, folks have eyes, they can see - they can put two and two together and may perhaps come to the conclusion that HP installation isn't for them because of how the services are connected to the house.  🐙could potentially shoot themselves in the foot/feet, so ought to listen to you.  And yes, with hindsight you could say that you should have been more insistent pipes/ducting etc was put here, not there - but how are you supposed to know all this?  Customers shouldn't have to leave it to installers who have nothing to lose, and no skin in the game, to not put things where it's quick/easy to install, rather than where is least obvious/out of sight lines, perhaps a bit more time-consuming to fit, or 3 more inches of ducting would be used......

You're one of a handful of 'early' adopters tmv - your feedback should be given great weight and consideration. If the technology has moved so that the heat pump itself is quiet (I though the first versions were noisy?), then it's time that the companies/government look at the whole installation process to make it attractive.  These things can be done - I saw the first solar panels (around here) the other week, that had been 'inset' into a roof - rather than set on top of the tiles.  I've never seen that before, but it looked far more attractive, and presumably had no impact on the energy generation status of the panels.  

Greying X

Thanks Greying - you have reinforced our thoughts perfectly - from the workmen having no skin in the game, to us not being expected to know everything to the fact that it may put people off. We are still waiting for any communication from the install team (you're given a named contact at head office once you've gone ahead with the order) after I let them know that the installation was complete - we've not even had acknowledgement of that yet (the first contact we had was excellent, really communicative; the one that replaced her after she left has barely been there - on holiday or training and just doesn't have the communication skills)... I'm waiting until they ask if we're happy (and certainly won't be paying until they've enquired as to that - not that we've had a request for payment yet). But the point about it not supporting future sales will definitely be made and if necessary Greg (CEO) will be copied in (Mr MV is apparently one LinkedIn contact removed from him 😆 - he works in electric fleet) as he is supposedly wanting us all to convert.

themadvix

greenbee said:

That's really annoying TMV. I've been through several electricians and plumbers on the basis that they don't think... and don't think to ASK. One of my neighbours had a good installer but said they weren't great at the design, and my electrician works with someone who is good at design, so I may well start talking to them both in the New Year. In the meantime, I'm just oversizing all the radiators and replacing what pipework I can as I do the minor renovations. I think I have to accept that there will be longer 15mm runs than ideal upstairs (at least for another 10 years which is when I'm next likely to agree to take floors up), and that downstairs there will potentially be issues with the pipework that's buried in the floors. And I have no clue how to heat the kitchen when I get to that - the ideal would be to add it to the UFH either side of it and turn them into a single zone, but that means channelling into the concrete slab, or possibly even digging it out, insulating, and pouring new concrete...

@Greying_Pilgrim - in-roof solar panel systems are slightly less efficient than on-roof, but not significantly. They're also more expensive (you need the in-roof kit and additional installation). However, if you need a new roof then they're a really good option. There are also new options that can be installed instead of tiles. My house has ugly concrete tiles on the roof (neighbours have nice clay tiles!) so the panels are a huge improvement!

One of the installers quickly cottoned on to the fact that he needed to check with me - after I saw him installing the plinth in the wrong place, but unfortunately the main decisions had already been made before we were made aware of the aesthetic issues. 

On your install, I really don't think you need to worry about 15mm pipework - aside from the 22mm stuff from hp to water tank, it's all 15mm here, and the rads are plumbed in with 15. They're only worried if it's microbore pipework.

themadvix

Afternoon all,

Thanks Cheery and Beanie too. We have done some further research over the weekend to improve our understanding of mitigation options (how best to paint the trunking etc.), which has helped mentally, but this will not be our first port of call, obviously.

Aside from installation issues, we continue to be very happy - the house is lovely and warm and we're getting good efficiency from the pump (albeit it's not been that cold yet). We've discovered that our smaller, older battery is not working however - it went offline when the power was turned off and hasn't come back on since (sparky turned it off following the instructions on the wall - and tbh it should cope with a sudden shutdown anyway as there's no accounting for power cuts). Mr MV has tried what he knows, what he's found on the Internet, and has now emailed the battery manufacturer. It is under warranty still (I should hope so and we've literally only just paid the last 0% instalment), so even if it's had it, it can be sorted. It's somewhat frustrating, but at least a) the bigger battery is working and b) the sun has been shining!

Had a pretty enjoyable weekend. Pub on Friday for a quick drink - we weren't late home, which was nice. Then to MIL and FIL's on Saturday so Mr MV could do some DIY for them - we were there all afternoon and got fed dinner. Yesterday we went for a lovely walk in the sunshine and then ended up at the pub in the village where we'd parked for a delicious roast by an open fire (sweet potato and chickpea loaf for me). Pub quiz in the evening, which was very hard - we did terribly and somehow still came 3rd! Spends all met from personal spending pot. 

Need to book car MOT, pop to vets and also get some stamps - will combine these with a walk after lunch as they're all in the same direction. Will also pick some kale for dinner - carrot and chickpea pilaf (an IP book recipe).

MS things:
* Finished platform job this morning and client has approved, so that's a good boost to the coffers for not a lot of time
* PA is mostly cleared and at £32+ now
* Work from main client arrived last night - working on that now
* Bread baked - really feels like I have the house back now
* Meals planned for the week - including Tuesday which was going to be BOGOF pizza at the pub but not now we've been out at the weekend

Gratitudes:
* Time with in-laws
* Gorgeous autumnal walk in the countryside
* Open fire in a cosy pub (we spent a lot of last winter trying to find one of these and failed abysmally, so it was very satisfying to find what we were looking for!)

Have a lovely afternoon all!

greenbee

Just out of interest, what flow temp is your HP set for?

I have a stupidly big house, with a stupidly complicated zoned heating system (and a stupidly small oil tank). I'm just hoping the plumber gets back to me today as I really would like to have the extra radiator on the landing and the single panel existing ones replaced on the landing and in the hall - particularly as I have the three radiators to be used in the garage as they were taken out from elsewhere! Given the news that we have to pay tax on earnings from solar exports, I'm keen to consume as much as possible of my solar generation - I may need to get a hot tub installed to manage that in the summer 🤣

If I haven't heard from him by tomorrow I'll just book everyone else in anyway. 

themadvix

greenbee said:

Just out of interest, what flow temp is your HP set for?

I have a stupidly big house, with a stupidly complicated zoned heating system (and a stupidly small oil tank). I'm just hoping the plumber gets back to me today as I really would like to have the extra radiator on the landing and the single panel existing ones replaced on the landing and in the hall - particularly as I have the three radiators to be used in the garage as they were taken out from elsewhere! Given the news that we have to pay tax on earnings from solar exports, I'm keen to consume as much as possible of my solar generation - I may need to get a hot tub installed to manage that in the summer 🤣

If I haven't heard from him by tomorrow I'll just book everyone else in anyway. 

Wait, what? Since when? How have we (I?) missed this?

Flow temp is currently set to 35 degrees, but I think system is designed for 45 degrees - for when it gets colder. The Cosy 6 has a weather compensation scale, so it automatically adjusts, but of course Mr MV going to fiddle with this! Have you done any modelling with the Heat Geeks planning tool? It might help with your plans.

A hot tub sounds like an excellent solution!

badmemory

Yes I too am concerned as I have never seen this.  Do you know what basis this is on.  Is it part of the £1000 you can earn as a "hustle".

greenbee

Will try to find the link... be back soon

On this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81718444/#Comment_81718444

Linking to this report https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/eco-homes/solar-panels/over-18-000-uk-solar-panel-owners-could-face-gbp100-hmrc-fine-this-friday

My question is - if we have to account for earnings, surely we can offset the costs against them? In which case it makes sense to depreciate over a short period (work out what would currently make your costs higher than earnings to show a loss), and plan to self-consume more in the future. I don't see that they can tax you on the income without taking the investment into account. But I'm not a tax accountant!

themadvix

This is the exemption here: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/business-income-manual/bim40520

So unless you’re making more than 20% more than you use, you won’t have to pay tax on exports, if I’ve understood correctly?

greenbee

So another scaremongering article then. Although it does refer to FIT not SEG. 

TBH unless the energy companies start producing annual export statements aligned with the tax year it's going to be pretty difficult for most of us to work out! It's not as if most people understand their energy bills anyway!