Bank accounts which can manage payee accounts with different reference fields

david72

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

Archerychick

Great idea, thank you for this!

exel1966

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

Chase absolutely can handle it.
RBOS Group can't, been discussed many times before in the bank a/c forum.

ToastLady

exel1966 said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

Chase absolutely can handle it.
RBOS Group can't, been discussed many times before in the banking forum.

Chase certainly can as I have several Principality RS's with different reference numbers funded from Chase, and never have any changes been made by their system.

masonic

There was an issue with Chase and references for scheduled payments that didn't affect immediate faster payments, see: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6561599/chase-how-to-remember-the-reference-for-a-payee

GlasgowExpat2

Nationwide can

PRAISETHESUN

Works fine for Lloyds too

Linton

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

masonic

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

The thread relates to creating multiple payees with the same sort code and account number, but different references. For example, two different accounts with a building society accessed through a central holding account and identified by different roll numbers. Could you set up two different payees at Natwest in that scenario? One for each roll number?

Stargunner

Santander can

AmityNeon

Unlike most providers, Chase and Starling allow storing multiple accounts under a single a payee, although their implementations differ slightly. With the new CoP checks, Starling's implementation is more logically robust, but both are still more flexible than other systems.

CHASE

• Payee (editable display name, defaults to Full name)
  • Account (editable display name, defaults to bank name)
    • Full name (Confirmation of Payee name, defaults to Payee, cannot be edited once set up)
    • Sort code
    • Account number
    • Reference (only one can be stored, but it can be amended per payment if the account doesn't require Secondary Reference Data)
      Chase used to be able to store/remember multiple references per Account, but since they 'updated' to support the new CoP checks, only one reference can be stored.

TL;DR You can add multiple of the same Account (defined by Sort code and Account number), but only ONCE per Payee. 'Payees' are just Chase's method of grouping accounts together, and accounts within a group can even have different Full names for CoP purposes. You can create as many Payees as you like and duplicate display names are allowed.

When attempting to add a duplicate Account (defined solely by Sort code and Account number without regard for the CoP name or Reference) under the same Payee, a new entry will not be added under that Payee. When you tap 'Add payee' you are not required to enter your Chase passcode, which strongly indicates no new account is actually being added. When you are then proceeded to 'Enter payment details' you'll find the existing Account (and Reference) pre-populated, not the account you were deceived into thinking was added.

The CoP check will succeed as long as the Full name and any applicable Reference data match the CoP database, but the Full name can be any valid name as it's not cross-referenced with any other data in any Payee record.

Before the CoP update, it was possible to have e.g. Skipton and Principality (different business accounts) under the same single Payee, and each account could store multiple references.

Starling

• Payee (editable display name, defaults to First name + Last name)
  • First name + Last name (Confirmation of Payee name, can be edited if necessary)
  • Account (editable display name, defaults to bank name)
    • Sort code
    • Account number
    • References (multiple can be stored if the account doesn't require Secondary Reference Data)

All Accounts under the same Payee use the same CoP name. Duplicate accounts are allowed under the same Payee, regardless of Reference data.