Bank accounts which can manage payee accounts with different reference fields

silvercar

masonic said:

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

The thread relates to creating multiple payees with the same sort code and account number, but different references. For example, two different accounts with a building society accessed through a central holding account and identified by different roll numbers. Could you set up two different payees at Natwest in that scenario? One for each roll number?

No you can’t. But you can set up a series of scheduled payments to one roll number, then change the roll number and set up another series of payments.

When you amend a payment reference it sticks until you change it again.

masonic

silvercar said:

masonic said:

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

The thread relates to creating multiple payees with the same sort code and account number, but different references. For example, two different accounts with a building society accessed through a central holding account and identified by different roll numbers. Could you set up two different payees at Natwest in that scenario? One for each roll number?

No you can’t. But you can set up a series of scheduled payments to one roll number, then change the roll number and set up another series of payments.

When you amend a payment reference it sticks until you change it again.

Thanks, so this sounds similar to the First Direct behaviour, although there is some commentary that First Direct is inconsistent in which reference 'sticks'.

AmityNeon

The key point worth reiterating is the new Confirmation of Payee checks recognising when Secondary Reference Data is required when creating a new payee, and thereby preventing amendments to the Reference field when making subsequent payments to the saved payee; this now appears to be standard behaviour for all banks since the October 2024 update.

If a bank's systems also prevent the creation of duplicate payee accounts (sort code and account number without regard to references), then it becomes a cumbersome task managing payments to accounts that require references.

NatWest/RBS/Ulster for example, when attempting to create a new payee with the same sort code and account number as an existing payee, it doesn't even matter if the new payee name is a different person, the CoP check will succeed (as expected) but then the system forces you into paying the existing previously saved payee (as per sort code and account number), and either amending the Reference if possible, or using the existing (unchangeable) Reference even if a new Reference was entered when attempting to create the new payee.

I should hope that the banks with more archaic implementations like the NatWest group update their systems sooner rather than later.

Linton

masonic said:

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

The thread relates to creating multiple payees with the same sort code and account number, but different references. For example, two different accounts with a building society accessed through a central holding account and identified by different roll numbers. Could you set up two different payees at Natwest in that scenario? One for each roll number?

No.  Reference is used to identify individual payments against multiple invoices, not payments to different totally people.  From a purist point of view trying to use references for this latter purpose seems rather a bodge.

masonic

Linton said:

masonic said:

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

The thread relates to creating multiple payees with the same sort code and account number, but different references. For example, two different accounts with a building society accessed through a central holding account and identified by different roll numbers. Could you set up two different payees at Natwest in that scenario? One for each roll number?

No.  Reference is used to identify individual payments against multiple invoices, not payments to different totally people.  From a purist point of view trying to use references for this latter purpose seems rather a bodge.

Yes, I blame the Building Societies Act of 1986.

ThePirates

Santander works, I use it with my multiple Principality Regular Savers with no issues.

kaMelo

Linton said:

david72 said:

There has been some discussion on the Regular Savers thread about which bank accounts can manage having payee accounts with different reference fields (as some banks are unable to cope with this), such as when you have several savings accounts with the same building society and deposits need to be made via the same "inbound account" but with the reference field set to correspond to the account number of the respective savings account, so I thought I would start a thread to try to collate this information together.

Updates to Confirmation of Payee have inadvertently made this more awkward as the system now knows that certain accounts require the correct reference to be attached, and then either makes it impossible to change the reference on an ad hoc basis or to set up multiple payees for the same sort-code/account-number.

 

Please feel free to add details of other banks to this thread. I will try to update this post as needed, but can't promise to be as timeous as some of the more elite forum members!

As an aside, sometimes the easiest way around this lack of functionality is just to make all the payments into a single easy access account at the building society and then manually (sigh) redistribute to the other accounts at that end.

Banks which can handle different references

• Barclays
  
• Halifax, Bank of Scotland (might also apply to Lloyds?)
• HSBC
  
• Starling
  

Banks which cannot handle different references

• Chase: you can try to add the account again as a new payee with a different reference, but it reverts to the previously saved reference for the account number on the confirmation screen
  
• First Direct: the most recent reference is saved and changes the reference for previously saved payees
• NatWest: the reference field cannot be changed (might also apply to RBS, Ulster?)
  

What is the problem with NatWest?  See https://www.natwest.com/support-centre/general-banking-information/general/how-do-i-amend-a-payee-reference.html

That is only possible when the payee does not require a reference to allocate the payment.
When the provider, usually building societies or other smaller providers, uses third party banking facilities and requires a reference to allocate payments to individual accounts it is now no longer possible to amend the reference once that provider has implemented CoP.
Even if it's an old payee that you've had for years (and amending the reference on a regular basis,) once the provider has implemented CoP, RBS/NatWest (and presumably Ulster Bank too)  remove the ability to amend the reference. 
Combine this new restriction with only being able to set up one payee with the same account no. and sort code it's become a pain in the backside.  

Horracce

My only issue is paying into 2 different Principality RS accounts … and I’m likely to have the same, or more over the coming years .. so I have a question .. if I open a Principality Online Easy Access account as a “secondary feeder” account, can this EA account do regular / scheduled transfers ?