PCN in residential car park (Do I have a leg to stand on!?)

marina_madness

I know Martin's advice is to never pay, but I would appreciate any thoughts or advice on this one. I suspect I may have to take it on the chin, but it is really galling. 

The basic facts:
I live in flat complex surrounding a resident's car park. I have an allocated space near my flat which I let my elderly mum and her partner use on 26th and 27th Dec, (this isn't the problem, spaces aren't linked to specific cars).
After spending Boxing Day with family nearby I drove the 3 of us back and parked my car next to an empty allocated bay. This is against the rules of the signage (Link Parking). My car was parked considerately and in no way blocking either other cars or access.
At 8.20am on 27th Dec, in a half empty car park I was ticketed.

Having looked at the all the information on MSE, I think the signage is all correct. There are several signs around the car park. Technically I have broken the parking rules. My grounds for potentially appealing are:
1. Ticketing a car at 8.20am the day after Boxing Day is unreasonable, particularly as it was not causing a nuisance. I could easily have parked in one of the numerous empty bays, but did not want to do that in case someone returned home. Sending someone to ticket cars then was clearly a deliberate attempt to sting someone like me, having family visiting for xmas. (There are no visitor spaces)
2. There is a small access road to the car park, followed by the first sign. On the pavement beyond that sign (therefore in the car park) there are cars always parked half on the pavement; so both not in designated spaces and also making the entrance only big enough for one car to pass at a time. In the several months I have been here, I have never seen them ticketed. One is a very recognisable Mk2 Land Rover which is almost permanently parked there. It was also parked there on Boxing Day and when I discovered my ticket later on 27th Dec. It may not have been there at 8.20am, but I very strongly suspect it was. 

So based on all of that, do I have any grounds to appeal based on what I feel is a predatory ticket and also that other cars which are also parked incorrectly and do actually cause a nuisance seem to be allowed to get away with it? (I can provide photos to back all of this up.) Or is the likely response (include jobsworthy nasal tone of your choice!); tough you broke the rules and everything is irrelevant. 

At the very least I will be contacting the management company to complain; although I suspect I will get a similar response.

Many thanks is advance for any thoughts on this. 

Car1980

Show us the sign. All the Link ones I've seen are inadequate. 

All your other points are basically invalid (including "I broke the rules so I should pay"). They're never going to cancel an invoice otherwise they'd go out of business.

KoalaMSEF

What is the reason for your car to be ticketed? 

h2g2

Are you a leaseholder or a tenant? What does the leasehold agreement or the tenancy agreement say (if anything) about parking?

marina_madness

Thanks for the responses so far, much appreciated.

marina_madness

So that is the sign (one of 4 around the car park).

I was ticketed for not parking in a designated bay, (just to side of one, reason for doing so above, but still parked sensibly and not blocking anything).

I own my flat, but it is a leasehold flat. I'll need to check the leasehold details, (assuming I can find them). 

KoalaMSEF

You said that spaces aren't linked to specific cars. I assume that your mum's car has been 'pre-authorised' in some way (either through registration or permit display)? If not, they probably will receive a PCN saying that they parked in a bay that is not allocated to them, since you are the owner. 

Residential parking cases involves two angles - lease (MA/freeholder) or signage (parking company)

From the angle of lease, it depends on what your lease says about the parking. Although your lease overrides the commercial 'contract' of the parking company, your lease has to say something other than that you can only park in your allocated bay. 

From the angle of signage, as far as the parking companies' concern, you breached the 'contract' (i.e., T&C on the signage) because you did not park in your own allocated bay. Parking sensibly is irrelevant in light of the 'contract'. 

Your lease should give you some idea about your case. 

Coupon-mad

When you can edit (once you get the title FORUMITE) please edit your thread title.

Sorry but that puts me off even reading a thread! You wouldn't be aware, but we even asked people a few years ago not to head threads up with that exact phrase.

EVERY CASE IS DEFENDABLE.

fisherjim

You are dealing with scammers, that sign is rubbish it only makes (in my opinion) an attempt at a contract with the driver, it does not with the keeper so keep shtum about the driver's details. The charge is buried in the small print.

Are there any entrance signs as demanded by the stupid Joint COP?

Your two points of appeal above are quite ridiculous as is your post title!

marina_madness

Thanks KoalaMSEF, that really helps. The parking spots are allocated to each flat, so my mum will be okay, but I do fall foul over the signage. I don't have the time for a lengthy appeal, (nor do I want to risk a CCJ), if it is pretty clear cut as you say. That was the whole point of checking here first. 

To Coupon-mad and fisherjim - could your try to remember you were newbies once. How was I to know others would be so triggered by a common phrase? And there are much friendlier ways of saying things than, "Your two points of appeal above are quite ridiculous as is your post title!" Maybe thinking how Martin himself would talk to others would be a good guide. 

Coupon-mad

You are not risking a CCJ and you don't need to appeal (at all) either.  There's no appeal worth trying with IPC firms.

You don't fall foul of the signs and won't be paying a penny.

Going forward, to help you we do need a thread title that mentions the parking company and stage you are at (ignoring the daft £170 demands in 2025) so that we know what we are dealing with without reading back, when your thread is on page two or more, that's all.

Do not pay this invoice.