Multiple PCN’s

__bc1

Hi, apologies if any of my questions are already covered in the newbies thread. I did look through it but was still unsure on some things

i received 2 Euro Parking Services PCNs a couple of days ago when I went round to my parents house (my car is still registered there). The PCNs are both for the same car park as I’ve stupidly been parking there on and off overnight for a couple of weeks now and hadn’t noticed the signs (I’m expecting at least 4 more PCNs from them in the coming days) 

The thing causing me the stress is the amount of them that will be coming through, I understand it was due to my own lack of diligence but I just can’t see how they justify £60 for each fine as the car park is mostly empty. Although they may argue that some of these stays have been in excess of 10 hours

Should I use the appeal template for each PCN that comes through? Or am I banged to rights so to speak, due to the fact that there is actual signage that I’ve failed to see.

Also do I need to update my address on the v5 or should I hold off on that now since they’re already sending letters to one address? 

Thanks in advance 

Gr1pr

I doubt that each PCN is £60, more likely that it's £100  ( the early settlement figure will be £60  )

The default daily tariff has typically been £100 for over 12 years,  plus the Supreme Court ruled on a figure of £85 some 9 years ago,  so nothing to see there,  it is what it is,  regardless of fairness or not

You could appeal each one separately,  but each one will be rejected,  no chance of any cancellations by EPS 

There is a possibility that you might win in court in the future 

We are assuming that you are in England or Wales   ?

You only need to update your V5c to correct the address for the service of papers,  so as long as you have regular access to the letters then its not important unless you want them to come to your current address 

Access to letters is what determines the decision to change it 

__bc1

Hi thanks for the reply, yes this is in England. 

I’m just unsure on if I would have any chance in court though as there is clear signage 

Gr1pr

It may be forbidding signage,  no offer, no consideration,  no contract,  possibly trespass  ?

But you have not shared any pictures of the paperwork or signs or location etc

Coupon-mad

__bc1 said:

Hi thanks for the reply, yes this is in England. 

I’m just unsure on if I would have any chance in court though as there is clear signage 

Can't be - or you wouldn't have parked and accepted £100 charge per day. DO NOT PAY.

__bc1

Appreciate the replies. I’ve attached some pictures for further context. So there is 2 entrances into the car park. The entrance I always use is shown in the first picture and has ‘Parking Conditions Apply’ at the entrance, there is no immediate signage inside the car park where I always leave my car, which is marked with the blue circle. 

My PCN only shows my vehicle entering and leaving in darkness so cannot identify the driver, bare in mind though I’m expecting several more PCNs to come through at some point soon which may identify a driver if I’ve entered or left in daylight 

Gr1pr

They cannot identify the driver,  regardless.   They dont have access to a database of drivers, only VRM details via an electronic link to the dvla vehicle database 

They only know who was driving if you told them who was driving   !

They are issuing the PCNs to the registered keeper of the vehicle by looking up the RK details on the dvla vehicle database,  the vehicle VRM is being captured by ANPR cameras 24/7/365

The £100 a pop charge is in yellow on that sign

__bc1

Thanks Gr1pr. I do understand that and I did read that on the newbie thread, but I am just concerned if a new PCN comes through identifying my face driving, then if I’m taken to court it will be identified as me? Increasing my fines. 

Apologies if this all sounds straight forward but I am just worried about sending off an appeal letter and then getting stung in court. I need to know beforehand what I will potentially be arguing before I send an appeal  

__bc1

Gr1pr said:

The £100 a pop charge is in yellow on that sign

So does this mean I have no defence then and I’m best just paying the fines or? 

Gr1pr

They will pursue you on the balance of probability that you were driving,  they can cross examine you in court to ask if you were the driver,  your defence would probably have to be written as keeper and driver 

To me you are looking at the wrong angle,  you were the driver on multiple occasions so not identifying the driver will hinder your case,  they can easily demolish your case with a single question about were you the driver   ?  Yes or no   ?

As coupon mad stated,  being the driver but not seeing the signs is a stronger argument 

There are no fines,  just private invoices at £100 each ( only magistrates issue fines, hasn't happened here  )

You would appeal on poor and inadequate signage and no landowner authority 

It doesn't matter what is in the appeal,  it will be rejected each and every time,  they are probably not even going to read the appeal,  they will reject them out of hand,  so I am not sure why you would appeal,  it won't achieve anything 

Appeals are usually done online,  not by letter,  so check your pcn letter for details ( I definitely would not post letters  )

You say that you understand the topics, but you clearly don't,  which is why you are here,  for clarity and advice etc

How many PCNs do you think are involved in total   ?  Maybe six  ?

If they sue you in court,  they will sue you as the RK and on the probability that you were driving 

Coupon-mad

__bc1 said:

Gr1pr said:

The £100 a pop charge is in yellow on that sign

So does this mean I have no defence then and I’m best just paying the fines or? 

Of course not! You have no fines. You won't contact them nor pay a penny.

That entrance sign is neither lit nor prominent, so of course you can't see it in the dark.

Come back if you get a court claim. Tell them if you move house within 6 years but that's not parking law, it's just obvious common sense.

You'll already know, if you have read the 4th post of the NEWBIES thread, to ignore all '£170 per PCN' joke threatograms.

And you'll already know, if you have read the second post of the NEWBIES thread, that if they issue a court claim (in the highly unlikely event of losing at a hearing) you'd pay LOADS LESS than the claim.

If they sue you in court,  they will sue you as the RK and on the probability that you were driving.

But we all know that's an unlawful assumption and not worth worrying the OP about. So what if they are sued? That's when cases are won!  

But to the OP:
...why don't you just park on-street overnight when visiting? Change your mindset. Avoid any private land like the plague.

I would literally never ever use a car park overnight, not even in London!  Most restrictions end at 6 or 8pm in plenty of streets in every city.

Never seek out a car park, like naive old people love to do - drives me mad...!