Separation - need to leave a joint tenancy!

ThisIsWeird

Hills456 said:

Thank you for all responses - I have emailed landlord stating the whole situation, and that I would like to resolve it amicably, that I cannot afford the rent when I move out. I am now going to email ex to attempt to end the tenancy jointly. Should I tell him that I plan to default on my payments if he doesn't agree to end the tenancy? The other option I will give ex is I could find someone to replace me.

I think I'd wait to see what the LL says in response.

saajan_12

ThisIsWeird said:

saajan_12 said:

doodling said:

Hi,

Hills456 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

Hills456 said:

As I’m moving to my mum’s house there is no second rental but can I say I cannot afford due to children expenses and bills at new house which he’s saying he also won’t pay for? 

No, please don't fib. Just don't mention 'rental' at all, then!

You probably have enough to justify your claim that you won't have enough money left to keep covering your 1/3rd, since your ex has refused to pay maintenance for your kids, and you are currently involved in legal action to resolve this - tell the LL all this, so they better understand the calibre of your ex. Make it clear to the LL that your intention will be to ultimately pay back what you owe them, your contribution to the rent. But if the situation drags on, the accumulated amount will obviously take you longer to repay. It's therefore in everyone's interest to act as soon as is permissible. Therefore, with the LL's understanding, you will 'have to stop paying your 1/3rd as you are fully providing for your children at the moment', and that will leave your ex to pay all the current rent should he wish to remain there (in his misguided hope that you will be stuffed by the LL too), or he can continue to only pay 2/3rds, in which case the LL shoves out a S8 post-haste (with the supporting evidence from you, of your ex's intention).

I am hoping the LL will be of decent calibre, and will take on board the situation. They are the ones who will ultimately make the decision on eviction and how to recover any lost rent (obviously the deposit first!), and they are also presumably the ones who can decide who to chase for this. It would seem, from what other posters on here have said, that they have the freedom to pursue the most likely successful outcome, and that would surely be the remaining tenant - the one who always paid the majority of the rent in any case.

Is your ex able to cover the whole rent, do you think? 

You said in an earlier post, "At the moment it’s direct debit - ex pays 2/3 and I pay 1/3 rent. He is threatening I would need to start paying half." In what form did he make this threat - can you evidence it? Text? Email? That is clearly unreasonable, since he's threatening to make you pay more when you aren't even there. Another poster on here - Ian - suggested that this could amount to "financial abuse as part of a pattern of controlling and coercive behaviour".

Is it part of a pattern? Even if not, I think the vast majority of impartial folk would consider this threat to be unreasonable and hard for him to justify in any practical sense, so it could only be intended as a means of coercion and control. Or punishment & revenge. All of it deplorable, and very possibly criminal.

I'll ask again - is there anyone on his side of the family who could be supportive in this? Have a quiet word with him? If this sorry mess continues to an unpleasant conclusion, isn't the guy aware of what his reputation could be when all the facts come out? Where does he work, for example - how would his colleagues react to this?

Someone needs to have a word in his ear.

He is definitely not able to pay the whole rent. His family could have a word with him, but he's very secretive about things with them, and they don't know half of what's going on. He threatened to increase my share of the rent to half through his solicitor... which obviously in response I am not agreeing to.
I presume I should email LL all this without ex in copy?

If they can't pay the rent without you then you are in a stronger position that if they could.

I would stop paying the rent.  Feel free to tell the landlord why if you want - they won't be happy but that is life.

The landlord may come after one or both of you for unpaid rent but once the arrears have reached 2 months I would also expect the landlord to start possession proceedings against you and the ex.  You want those possession proceedings to succeed.

At the end of this you will owe rent and court costs, but hopefully it will be smaller number than if you were stuck until the end of the fixed term.

You have a long standing agreement with your ex that you would pay one third of the rent, your ex has no obvious basis to change that now - what reason for the change have they come up with?

This is the right practical answer. You could keep discussing and craft teh perfect explanation for the LL from now until the end of the lease but it won't make any actual difference. Best case, they are understanding and can't do anything about it currently. Worst case, they are angry with you and can't do anything about it currently. End result = same. 

Couldn't the best case be that the LL makes it clear to the remaining tenant that they will be the first to be pursued for any missing rent, ideally giving the fellow a dose of reality, and possibly even persuading him that the best thing he can do - for himself - is sign the termination doc and move out?
If so, how likely is that to occur if the OP simply defaults with a, "the LL won't be happy, but that's life"?

Way too much reliance on human behaviour; that requires ALL of the below to happen for it to have any benefit for OP. I wouldn't bet a month's rent payment on all that working out: 
(a) LL agreeing and sympathising with OP at all (given break ups have two sides, and its not their battle)
(b) LL taking actions to their own detriment to help the OP 
(c) Ex taking the LL's (legally meaningless/illogical) comments to heart and believing the LL will decline to sue one of the tenants 
(d) LL being willing to terminate on terms that are acceptable to the Ex 

bobster2

An additional factor that has not been mentioned - the tenancy does not automatically end in June 2026. Unless OP and ex agree to give notice then, it would become a rolling tenancy with a continuing financial obligation for OP. So best to try to sort things out now.

As an aside, an AST with a fixed term >12 months is a little unusual. If this was the landlords preference this could suggest they may not be that flexible.

ThisIsWeird

saajan_12 said:

Way too much reliance on human behaviour; that requires ALL of the below to happen for it to have any benefit for OP. I wouldn't bet a month's rent payment on all that working out: 
(a) LL agreeing and sympathising with OP at all (given break ups have two sides, and its not their battle)
(b) LL taking actions to their own detriment to help the OP 
(c) Ex taking the LL's (legally meaningless/illogical) comments to heart and believing the LL will decline to sue one of the tenants 
(d) LL being willing to terminate on terms that are acceptable to the Ex 

Yes but no but yes but.

This is no skin off t'LL's nose. The LL can chase either or both parties at will, any time they want, or need to. No detriment.

But, if the LL is informed of the situation from the off - ie, don't bother trying to negotiate a rent holiday/staged payments, now't like that, 'cos the truth is, I cannot pay as I'm, looking after the kids, and neither can my ex 'cos he doesn't have enough income. So, I suggest that the moment one of us defaults, get your paperwork sorted asap. That way, you'll be shot of us both asap and you can get a new tenant in quickly, and I will be in a better position to pay you quickly what I'll owe you. If instead this drags on, rent arrears accruing, then it's going to be courts and all that tedious malarkey, and I'll probably be expected to pay you back at £10 a week.

It doesn't matter whether the LL truly sympathises or not, the LL will have a darned good idea on the best way to move forward on this, if fully informed, and with one tenant on board.

I'd like to think that if I were the LL here, I'd have a chat with the ex, and first ask, "How can you pay the full rent on your own?" And, based on his answer, "Let's get this straight - you have split up, your ex has left with the kids, and you still expect her to keep you ensconced here?!"

Based on this, I would indicate quite firmly that I will instigate S8 on the first default, and chase the person I am speaking to in the first instance.

What would you do?

Hills456

Is it worth mentioning randomly to the landlord that we / ex have cats in the property which actually is a breach of one of the clauses of the tenancy which says we cannot have pets? As I'm moving out now, might be worth mentioning? 

DE_612183

Hills456 said:

Is it worth mentioning randomly to the landlord that we / ex have cats in the property which actually is a breach of one of the clauses of the tenancy which says we cannot have pets? As I'm moving out now, might be worth mentioning? 

are you taking the cats with you?

how would you feel if the ex takes the cats to a pound as he prefers the house to the cats?

Hills456

DE_612183 said:

Hills456 said:

Is it worth mentioning randomly to the landlord that we / ex have cats in the property which actually is a breach of one of the clauses of the tenancy which says we cannot have pets? As I'm moving out now, might be worth mentioning? 

are you taking the cats with you?

how would you feel if the ex takes the cats to a pound as he prefers the house to the cats?

Not taking the cats...

DE_612183

Hills456 said:

DE_612183 said:

Hills456 said:

Is it worth mentioning randomly to the landlord that we / ex have cats in the property which actually is a breach of one of the clauses of the tenancy which says we cannot have pets? As I'm moving out now, might be worth mentioning? 

are you taking the cats with you?

how would you feel if the ex takes the cats to a pound as he prefers the house to the cats?

Not taking the cats...

I suppose you could mention it - makes you seem a bit vindictive when you're trying to get sympathy from the landlord...

caprikid1

Although in breach of the contract the Landlord probably could not terminate due to CATS. The world has moved on a bit since Pet clauses are not that strong these days.

saajan_12

ThisIsWeird said:

saajan_12 said:

Way too much reliance on human behaviour; that requires ALL of the below to happen for it to have any benefit for OP. I wouldn't bet a month's rent payment on all that working out: 
(a) LL agreeing and sympathising with OP at all (given break ups have two sides, and its not their battle)
(b) LL taking actions to their own detriment to help the OP 
(c) Ex taking the LL's (legally meaningless/illogical) comments to heart and believing the LL will decline to sue one of the tenants 
(d) LL being willing to terminate on terms that are acceptable to the Ex 

Yes but no but yes but.

This is no skin off t'LL's nose. The LL can chase either or both parties at will, any time they want, or need to. No detriment.

But, if the LL is informed of the situation from the off - ie, don't bother trying to negotiate a rent holiday/staged payments, now't like that, 'cos the truth is, I cannot pay as I'm, looking after the kids, and neither can my ex 'cos he doesn't have enough income. So, I suggest that the moment one of us defaults, get your paperwork sorted asap. That way, you'll be shot of us both asap and you can get a new tenant in quickly, and I will be in a better position to pay you quickly what I'll owe you. If instead this drags on, rent arrears accruing, then it's going to be courts and all that tedious malarkey, and I'll probably be expected to pay you back at £10 a week.

It doesn't matter whether the LL truly sympathises or not, the LL will have a darned good idea on the best way to move forward on this, if fully informed, and with one tenant on board.

I'd like to think that if I were the LL here, I'd have a chat with the ex, and first ask, "How can you pay the full rent on your own?" And, based on his answer, "Let's get this straight - you have split up, your ex has left with the kids, and you still expect her to keep you ensconced here?!"

Based on this, I would indicate quite firmly that I will instigate S8 on the first default, and chase the person I am speaking to in the first instance.

What would you do?

I think you're dramatising a whole play here. 

It is to the LL's detriment to only chase one person when they could just as easily sue both jointly and get the money from whoever pays first. So the ex isn't going to believe that a sane LL would do that. So they wouldn't take heed of these words. 

What would I do as the LL? Not get involved in who's right, and just issue a rent statement to all tenants if/when its late. When it got to 2 months then issue a S8 and a claim for the rent arrears to all tenants.