Separation - need to leave a joint tenancy!

ThisIsWeird

Is there any other angle to this terrible situation, one that could apply pressure? Do you have family who could help? Does your 'ex'?

Does his family know what he's doing? Do they care? Do you get on with your in-laws? Do they dote on their grandkids?

Do you - or your children - actually feel 'at risk' when you are back in that rental with your ex? If so, have you told anyone? Have you reported this?

It doesn't have to be physical, but gaslighting and implied threats are hellish, tangible, things that should be recognised.

doodling

Hi,

You haven't given details of the property and circumstances and hence whether this is an appropriate approach but one area of leverage you have whilst you still live there is to move someone else in to live with you - e.g. member of family, new partner, etc.  That might prompt the ex to revisit whether they want to continue the tenancy (ot it might prompt them to move someone else in themselves - your guess!). That option isn't really available to you once you move out.

Financialy, can your ex afford to pay the rent on their own?  If they can't then there is an end in sight as they will eventually be evicted if you stop paying.

saajan_12

ThisIsWeird said:

So, I think the best thing to do would be to first reinstate the dd so that you don't default. Then contact the LL explaining the hard facts of your situation. Nothing 'emotive' (no 'spite', no 'unreasonable' no nothing), just state it as it is; 

1) You have split from your partner

2) For the sake of your children, you've 'had to' move out asap, and you have found a place to stay.

3) Ex says he'll refuse to end the current tenancy, and adds that he expects me to keep contributing to the current rent. Further, he's threatened to reduce his contribution and make it 50:50. He knows that I cannot afford either level of rent contribution, as I'm having to pay new rent for me and my children.

4) I cannot remotely afford to pay two rentals. I cannot return to the current property for the sake of my children.

I would therefore wish the tenancy to terminate asap, but understand that this requires the permission of both tenants? Could you confirm this, please? Is there any way around this? If the tenancy cannot be terminated by agreement, then I fear it may be by defaulting on our payments, something I'd much rather avoid, but cannot see any way not to - I cannot afford to maintain two rental properties. What can you suggest, please, to make this as quick and painless as possible?

The problem with this is the LL can't actually do anything about it without ex's agreement or without rent arrears building up. Yes its good to discuss things (tbh I was assuming OP already had done) but I wouldn't lose time / money as a result. If the arrears have to build in order to force action then better they start sooner than later. 

ThisIsWeird said:

The LL could well be very sympathetic and understanding of your situation and agree to chase the remaining tenant for the full amount, recognising that this would be the moral thing to do, and then instigate eviction if they fail. In other words, your liability would only be the current 1/3rd, and hopefully less with the LL's agreement.

Meanwhile, your contribution of 1/3rd doesn't need to change - if your ex drops his to half, then that's his lookout; you stay at the current third.

 - contact CAB and Shelter - they WILL have seen this countless times before.

So what.. the ex could just turn around and chase OP for the 1/3 share based on how they were splitting bills. Regardless, OP's libaility to the LL is for 100%, not to 1/3 or less. If ex drops to half, the LL could just as easily chase OP for the difference, just like they could for the original 1/3 share. Your suggestion is no better than stopping payment entirely. 

Hills456

ThisIsWeird said:

Hills, firstly I have to say I do not know the answer to your situation, but I'd suggest you shouldn't do anything until you do.

I'm not sure that cancelling your DD was a good move, at least not until having tried to discuss your situation with the LL, ideally getting them onside.

I'm not saying you should reinstate it, but my gut reckons you should - hopefully for just one more month or so, until you sort out a plan, possibly with the LL. But, by cancelling, presumably without warning, you have defaulted - you are the one who's done 'wrong', however understandable many may consider it to be. Your situation is messy, and I fear this has just added another layer of complexity.

There will be 'best' answers to your situation out there - this must be a very common occurrence - and I'd have thought that CAB and Shelter should be two places on your priority list for advice.

As for your rent, think of it this way - if you were the only tenant, and your circumstances changed so that you couldn't keep up payments, would you just cancel your DD without notice? Of course not. You'd contact the LL, explain your predicament, and agree the best way to extract yourself from this tenancy. From the LL's perspective, they just want reliable tenants who pay on time. They don't want a legal mess, or to have to chase folk for arrears. 

The LL could well be very sympathetic and understanding of your situation and agree to chase the remaining tenant for the full amount, recognising that this would be the moral thing to do, and then instigate eviction if they fail. In other words, your liability would only be the current 1/3rd, and hopefully less with the LL's agreement.

Meanwhile, your contribution of 1/3rd doesn't need to change - if your ex drops his to half, then that's his lookout; you stay at the current third.

So, I think the best thing to do would be to first reinstate the dd so that you don't default. Then contact the LL explaining the hard facts of your situation. Nothing 'emotive' (no 'spite', no 'unreasonable' no nothing), just state it as it is; 

1) You have split from your partner

2) For the sake of your children, you've 'had to' move out asap, and you have found a place to stay.

3) Ex says he'll refuse to end the current tenancy, and adds that he expects me to keep contributing to the current rent. Further, he's threatened to reduce his contribution and make it 50:50. He knows that I cannot afford either level of rent contribution, as I'm having to pay new rent for me and my children.

4) I cannot remotely afford to pay two rentals. I cannot return to the current property for the sake of my children.

I would therefore wish the tenancy to terminate asap, but understand that this requires the permission of both tenants? Could you confirm this, please? Is there any way around this? If the tenancy cannot be terminated by agreement, then I fear it may be by defaulting on our payments, something I'd much rather avoid, but cannot see any way not to - I cannot afford to maintain two rental properties. What can you suggest, please, to make this as quick and painless as possible? Ie - I am giving you advance notice that 'we' are going to default, because there is no alternative but to do so - neither of us has the money to pay the rent, and that isn't going to change. With that in mind, can you threaten/activate S8 immediately? 

Something like that.

But, I don't know.

Priority, surely, get advice - contact CAB and Shelter - they WILL have seen this countless times before.

In short, cancelling your DD might 'save' you your rental-third for the time being, but in the longer term it is likely to drag the situation out, and that is going to cost you more, potentially a lot more. Try and get the LL on side to end this 'mare in the quickest way possible.

Thank you- so helpful. Do you suggest copying ex into this email? 

I still have a few days until the rent is actually due - maybe I pay for the few days in December only to make it to my move out date on 27th? I could be open about this in the email to the landlords?

Hills456

saajan_12 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

So, I think the best thing to do would be to first reinstate the dd so that you don't default. Then contact the LL explaining the hard facts of your situation. Nothing 'emotive' (no 'spite', no 'unreasonable' no nothing), just state it as it is; 

1) You have split from your partner

2) For the sake of your children, you've 'had to' move out asap, and you have found a place to stay.

3) Ex says he'll refuse to end the current tenancy, and adds that he expects me to keep contributing to the current rent. Further, he's threatened to reduce his contribution and make it 50:50. He knows that I cannot afford either level of rent contribution, as I'm having to pay new rent for me and my children.

4) I cannot remotely afford to pay two rentals. I cannot return to the current property for the sake of my children.

I would therefore wish the tenancy to terminate asap, but understand that this requires the permission of both tenants? Could you confirm this, please? Is there any way around this? If the tenancy cannot be terminated by agreement, then I fear it may be by defaulting on our payments, something I'd much rather avoid, but cannot see any way not to - I cannot afford to maintain two rental properties. What can you suggest, please, to make this as quick and painless as possible?

The problem with this is the LL can't actually do anything about it without ex's agreement or without rent arrears building up. Yes its good to discuss things (tbh I was assuming OP already had done) but I wouldn't lose time / money as a result. If the arrears have to build in order to force action then better they start sooner than later. 

ThisIsWeird said:

The LL could well be very sympathetic and understanding of your situation and agree to chase the remaining tenant for the full amount, recognising that this would be the moral thing to do, and then instigate eviction if they fail. In other words, your liability would only be the current 1/3rd, and hopefully less with the LL's agreement.

Meanwhile, your contribution of 1/3rd doesn't need to change - if your ex drops his to half, then that's his lookout; you stay at the current third.

 - contact CAB and Shelter - they WILL have seen this countless times before.

So what.. the ex could just turn around and chase OP for the 1/3 share based on how they were splitting bills. Regardless, OP's libaility to the LL is for 100%, not to 1/3 or less. If ex drops to half, the LL could just as easily chase OP for the difference, just like they could for the original 1/3 share. Your suggestion is no better than stopping payment entirely. 

Thank you - yes I have repeatedly told the property manager that I cannot afford rent going forward. Ex refused to do the change of occupancy process yesterday so now is appropriate for another email with a bit more detail and informing them that I will not be paying the rent…I could pay for the few days in December I’m still in the property but I don’t want to!

Hills456

I will try to contact shelter and CAB - a private lawyer said I might be throwing good money after bad!!!

ThisIsWeird

Hills456 said:

Thank you- so helpful. Do you suggest copying ex into this email? 

I still have a few days until the rent is actually due - maybe I pay for the few days in December only to make it to my move out date on 27th? I could be open about this in the email to the landlords?

I just don't know, Hills - sorry. And also check out Saajan's reply to my post above.

You need proper advice - have you contacted CAB and Shelter yet? If not, that's what you should be doing.

My take on this is that you should be upfront with the LL, and not just cancel without notice. Make it clear you have to - you have no choice; you must prioritise your kids. If you don't - if you just stop paying - then the LL will likely consider you equally 'morally' liable as well as financially. It'll also prompt them to get a S8 'ready'! 

Most LL's try and negotiate with their tenants if there are problems paying the rent on time, and this can eat up weeks and months before they ultimately act. You are being upfront - payment just cannot happen. You have had to move out - so your ex either pays for it all, or he defaults too. And, if you know he cannot pay this rent on his own, might as well tell the LL this too. Ie - he just isn't going to get his rent paid, full stop. So, the sooner he can enact an S8 the better for you all. 

If you can save as much of your third of the rent until this happens, you can inform the LL that you will make good your deficit as soon as you possibly can. Yes, the LL can hold you jointly liable for the missing rent, but the LL may be minded to consider the matter severally-liable instead, so will pursue only your ex for any default. I'm guessing a LL has that option? But, like all this, I don't know.

In an ideal world, a LL could come onside in such matters, especially if it suits them too, and a fast resolution to this would do so. So, if they inform your ex that he will be prioritised for any rent shortfall, that could well focus your ex's mind to sign an exit.

Obliging your ex to agree to end the tenancy would be a good result for the LL too.

But, did I mention you need proper advice?

ian1246

IF there's a history of domestic violence then the most appropriate/ easiest way of resolving this could be to report it to Police, including the situation with the Ex's refusal to sign the requested paperwork - which could amount to financial abuse as part of a pattern of controlling and coercive behaviour.

In such a situation, remaining at the property and taking on 100% of the rent would likely be the best outcome if the Police then action an investigation - arresting him & imposing bail conditions (stopping his return to the address) or an domestic violence protection order - meanwhile you change the door lock...

This obviously though requires he be breaking the law. If it's just a separation with "ordinary" tensions which arise from mutual financial obligations needing splitting, then the above should be disregarded.

The issue you've got is if the rents not paid in full, both of you run the risk of legal action & subsequently getting your credit history sunk - potentially crippling your housing future prospects.
 

Hills456

ThisIsWeird said:

Hills456 said:

Thank you- so helpful. Do you suggest copying ex into this email? 

I still have a few days until the rent is actually due - maybe I pay for the few days in December only to make it to my move out date on 27th? I could be open about this in the email to the landlords?

I just don't know, Hills - sorry. And also check out Saajan's reply to my post above.

You need proper advice - have you contacted CAB and Shelter yet? If not, that's what you should be doing.

My take on this is that you should be upfront with the LL, and not just cancel without notice. Make it clear you have to - you have no choice; you must prioritise your kids. If you don't - if you just stop paying - then the LL will likely consider you equally 'morally' liable as well as financially. It'll also prompt them to get a S8 'ready'! 

Most LL's try and negotiate with their tenants if there are problems paying the rent on time, and this can eat up weeks and months before they ultimately act. You are being upfront - payment just cannot happen. You have had to move out - so your ex either pays for it all, or he defaults too. And, if you know he cannot pay this rent on his own, might as well tell the LL this too. Ie - he just isn't going to get his rent paid, full stop. So, the sooner he can enact an S8 the better for you all. 

If you can save as much of your third of the rent until this happens, you can inform the LL that you will make good your deficit as soon as you possibly can. Yes, the LL can hold you jointly liable for the missing rent, but the LL may be minded to consider the matter severally-liable instead, so will pursue only your ex for any default. I'm guessing a LL has that option? But, like all this, I don't know.

In an ideal world, a LL could come onside in such matters, especially if it suits them too, and a fast resolution to this would do so. So, if they inform your ex that he will be prioritised for any rent shortfall, that could well focus your ex's mind to sign an exit.

Obliging your ex to agree to end the tenancy would be a good result for the LL too.

But, did I mention you need proper advice?

Thank you - so difficult to get in touch with CAB and Shelter……

FlorayG

doodling said:

Hi,

You haven't given details of the property and circumstances and hence whether this is an appropriate approach but one area of leverage you have whilst you still live there is to move someone else in to live with you - e.g. member of family, new partner, etc.  

Not allowed without permission from the landlord to have a 'permitted occupier'