Baggage left behind

eskbanker

CelticFire said:

As to whether or not it’s part of a business model, maybe I’m more cynical than others but there are financial penalties  (including knock on flights)  which are far higher than lost baggage claims.

I imagine that there will sometimes be occasions when airlines will need to make rushed operational decisions about whether or not to grab an ATC slot in the knowledge that baggage hasn't all been loaded, but that's still some way short of it being a business model, or even a routine practice, as such, which would undoubtedly attract the attention of the regulator....

Pollycat

eskbanker said:

CelticFire said:

As to whether or not it’s part of a business model, maybe I’m more cynical than others but there are financial penalties  (including knock on flights)  which are far higher than lost baggage claims.

I imagine that there will sometimes be occasions when airlines will need to make rushed operational decisions about whether or not to grab an ATC slot in the knowledge that baggage hasn't all been loaded, but that's still some way short of it being a business model, or even a routine practice, as such, which would undoubtedly attract the attention of the regulator....

Regardless of what the OP alleges, I'm not convinced that airlines are deliberately choosing to leave luggage behind as part of a business plan or business model.

CelticFire

Oh dear, it does seem that I have ruffled some feathers . eskbanker stated “ imagine that there will sometimes be occasions when airlines will need to make rushed operational decisions about whether or not to grab an ATC slot in the knowledge that baggage hasn't all been loaded”.  I accept that and the point of my post was to see if many others had experienced it and just how widespread it is.   As for others who believe that virtuous airline companies would never subscribe to such practices.  🫣
When the ground staff are standing with a trolley, and you can see your case plain as day, and the captain says they are not ours they are headed for Düsseldorf. 😂. 

You can believe what you wish.

eskbanker

CelticFire said:

Oh dear, it does seem that I have ruffled some feathers . eskbanker stated “ imagine that there will sometimes be occasions when airlines will need to make rushed operational decisions about whether or not to grab an ATC slot in the knowledge that baggage hasn't all been loaded”.  I accept that and the point of my post was to see if many others had experienced it and just how widespread it is.   As for others who believe that virtuous airline companies would never subscribe to such practices.  🫣
When the ground staff are standing with a trolley, and you can see your case plain as day, and the captain says they are not ours they are headed for Düsseldorf. 😂. 

You can believe what you wish.

You may have intended your post to simply ask about the experiences of others but you'd clearly already made your mind up about this being a deliberate policy, so it was inevitable that assertions like that would be challenged!  Drip-feeding more details doesn't really change anything - airlines are run by human beings who naturally make mistakes, but believing that they deliberately set out to irritate their customers doesn't seem particularly tenable....

Grumpy_chap

CelticFire said:

Situ 1 Flying from Heathrow with BA.  BA knowingly left behind the cases belonging to passengers who were transferring to that flight.  Only luggage which arrived was those who checked in directly at Heathrow. 

Situ 2. Package Holiday TUI Check in 13:00 for a 15:30 flight.  Flight delayed 2.5 hours. Getting close to 3 hr compensation time when flight took off, leaving behind all but a few cases on the trolley. 

On both occasions staff knew the baggage was left as they informed us as soon as we were airborne. 

Both of your situations are quite different.

Situation 2 may have been a decision taken under pressure if the flights were running late and a slot was offered - staff in the moment need to take a call.

Situation 1 sounds rather like the transfer time between flights was too short.  Happened to me with a transfer where the incoming flight was delayed - we made it to the onward flight by running break-neck speed and reached boarding moments before the gate closed.  Our baggage did not make it.  On arrival to the destination (which happened to be Heathrow), we were advised the baggage had not made the transfer and the process for return - the case was delivered to home the next day by courier.  I thought the process was very efficient. 

I don't think in either situation, the respective airlines are leaving baggage behind as a corporate business decision.  Ultimately, if one airline followed this approach as a routine measure, they'd get a poor reputation and lose business.

Pollycat

CelticFire said:

Oh dear, it does seem that I have ruffled some feathers . eskbanker stated “ imagine that there will sometimes be occasions when airlines will need to make rushed operational decisions about whether or not to grab an ATC slot in the knowledge that baggage hasn't all been loaded”.  I accept that and the point of my post was to see if many others had experienced it and just how widespread it is.   As for others who believe that virtuous airline companies would never subscribe to such practices.  🫣
When the ground staff are standing with a trolley, and you can see your case plain as day, and the captain says they are not ours they are headed for Düsseldorf. 😂. 

You can believe what you wish.

You've not ruffled any feathers - at least not mine.

You have come up with an airline business plan/model that other posters are not convinced actually exists.
And you got exactly the responses I would have expected you to get.

And how about answering some of the questions you've been asked up-thread...?

If you want a forum where everybody agrees with you and accepts conspiracy theories, I'm afraid MSE isn't it.

zagfles

Grumpy_chap said:

CelticFire said:

Situ 1 Flying from Heathrow with BA.  BA knowingly left behind the cases belonging to passengers who were transferring to that flight.  Only luggage which arrived was those who checked in directly at Heathrow. 

Situ 2. Package Holiday TUI Check in 13:00 for a 15:30 flight.  Flight delayed 2.5 hours. Getting close to 3 hr compensation time when flight took off, leaving behind all but a few cases on the trolley. 

On both occasions staff knew the baggage was left as they informed us as soon as we were airborne. 

Both of your situations are quite different.

Situation 2 may have been a decision taken under pressure if the flights were running late and a slot was offered - staff in the moment need to take a call.

Situation 1 sounds rather like the transfer time between flights was too short.  Happened to me with a transfer where the incoming flight was delayed - we made it to the onward flight by running break-neck speed and reached boarding moments before the gate closed.  Our baggage did not make it.  On arrival to the destination (which happened to be Heathrow), we were advised the baggage had not made the transfer and the process for return - the case was delivered to home the next day by courier.  I thought the process was very efficient. 

I don't think in either situation, the respective airlines are leaving baggage behind as a corporate business decision.  Ultimately, if one airline followed this approach as a routine measure, they'd get a poor reputation and lose business.

Yes, in a situation where flights are delayed they are going to have to make a decision which will adversely affect some people, but also possibly benefit others.

In the case of the transfer, airlines don't usually wait for passengers, let alone luggage. If they did there'd likely be a knock on effect on other people who may be on a transfer from the second flight, and it could cascade causing loads of flights to be delayed. 

In the case of a big delay there's regulations about working hours, so if the delay is too long the crew may be forced to cancel the flight completely which would annoy all those with no hold luggage and perhaps even some with who've got enough in their cabin bag to keep them going a couple of days. 

So it's probably no more a "deliberate policy" than eg the policy of not delaying flights for connecting passengers coming from flights which are late. 

Caz3121

my experience 500+ flights
1 bag missed a (short) connection in Brussels and was delivered to me at home the next day (was return flight)
have had one occasion with baggage delayed to the belt some years ago when the hold door got stuck and they could not offload baggage.

Grumpy_chap

zagfles said:

In the case of the transfer, airlines don't usually wait for passengers, let alone luggage. 

I don't think the airline waited for us.
The airline (Swiss) was, however, exceedingly efficient.  We landed and the flight crew knew we were late landing.  As the plane was on descent, the names of a handful of passengers were called out (including us) and we were identified for rapid exit and given the route to peg it through the interchange (Schiphol) and wished good luck.  I assume the other names called out also had interconnecting flights somewhere or other.  We did the absolute sprint all the way and just reached the gate on time.  Had we not done so, that connecting flight would have gone and we'd have been hunting around for alternatives.

jimi_man

Pollycat said:

CelticFire said:

Situ 1 Flying from Heathrow with BA.  BA knowingly left behind the cases belonging to passengers who were transferring to that flight.  Only luggage which arrived was those who checked in directly at Heathrow. 

Situ 2. Package Holiday TUI Check in 13:00 for a 15:30 flight.  Flight delayed 2.5 hours. Getting close to 3 hr compensation time when flight took off, leaving behind all but a few cases on the trolley. 

On both occasions staff knew the baggage was left as they informed us as soon as we were airborne. On both occasions there were over 100 people affected, so it’s not a personal issue merely trying to gauge if it is widespread in the industry, or are some operators worse than others.
As to whether or not it’s part of a business model, maybe I’m more cynical than others but there are financial penalties  (including knock on flights)  which are far higher than lost baggage claims.

Was the other flight also from LHR?

How do you know this 

CelticFire said:

In a short post I didn’t go in to all the details just wanted to gauge this forum so I’ll elucidate.  We’ve travelled extensively.  Yes we have,  as some suggested split our belongings in two cases.  And yes, surprisingly enough we did arrive in plenty of time for check in. This doesn’t help however when the airline CHOOSE to leave them behind. ( both cases) 

for certain?

Could it be a ground crew issue.
AFAIK, neither BA or TUI staff load hold luggage for their flights?

BA ground staff do actually load bags, not sure about TUI. 

What the OP describes does occasionally happen.(I can only provide information in relation to BA). In times of disruption sometimes there is a decision to be made whether to leave without all the bags but all the passengers or it may be a case of not leaving at all. It has nothing to do with how early or late one checks in. If everything is ready but the either none or half maybe of the luggage has been loaded then it’s often better just to leave and let the luggage catch up. This is a decision generally made by the commander of the aircraft , in conjunction with the airline. 

From a personal point of view, we rarely take hold luggage and have happily travelled around Asia for a couple of weeks with just hand luggage. Same with many other places and once you do this it’s incredibly liberating.