PIP Advice

atlantis187

My wife had her telephone PIP assessment today and at the start the assessor said it would last an hour or so but it actually lasted 2hrs 20mins absolutely excruciating for my wife the assessor went into minute details about every little thing about her conditions.

Anyway we phoned the DWP later in the day to ask how many points she has scored but the guy didn't tell us and said the case manager decides this and could take about 8 weeks.
We asked for them to send us a copy of the report.

I thought the assessor decided how many points to give for each descriptor?
As it was such a long assesment can we read anything into this such as being awarded pip?
This was a review assesment and it caught us off guard as we thought it would only last half an hour to an hour.

Spoonie_Turtle

You'll be able to have a copy of the report once the assessor has sent it back to DWP; you'll need to phone and ask for this either when they text you to say they've received it, or in about a week if you don't get a text. 

In practice the decision maker (case manager) usually does go with what the assessor thinks for the descriptors, but DWP won't know what those are until they get to your wife's case and look at the report when making the decision.

We can hope that such an in-depth assessment means they'll write an accurate report and suggest the appropriate descriptors, but realistically you won't know until you either get the decision or a copy of the assessment report, whichever arrives first.

poppy12345

atlantis187 said:

My wife had her telephone PIP assessment today and at the start the assessor said it would last an hour or so but it actually lasted 2hrs 20mins absolutely excruciating for my wife the assessor went into minute details about every little thing about her conditions.

Anyway we phoned the DWP later in the day to ask how many points she has scored but the guy didn't tell us and said the case manager decides this and could take about 8 weeks.
We asked for them to send us a copy of the report.

I thought the assessor decided how many points to give for each descriptor?
As it was such a long assesment can we read anything into this such as being awarded pip?
This was a review assesment and it caught us off guard as we thought it would only last half an hour to an hour.

Any points that are recommended in the report are not added up anyway because it's just a recommendation. For the person from the call centre to have been able to tell you how many points, they would have needed to look at the descriptors to add them up and that takes time. It's not something they would do over the phone. 

born_again

poppy12345 said:

atlantis187 said:

My wife had her telephone PIP assessment today and at the start the assessor said it would last an hour or so but it actually lasted 2hrs 20mins absolutely excruciating for my wife the assessor went into minute details about every little thing about her conditions.

Anyway we phoned the DWP later in the day to ask how many points she has scored but the guy didn't tell us and said the case manager decides this and could take about 8 weeks.
We asked for them to send us a copy of the report.

I thought the assessor decided how many points to give for each descriptor?
As it was such a long assesment can we read anything into this such as being awarded pip?
This was a review assesment and it caught us off guard as we thought it would only last half an hour to an hour.

Any points that are recommended in the report are not added up anyway because it's just a recommendation. For the person from the call centre to have been able to tell you how many points, they would have needed to look at the descriptors to add them up and that takes time. It's not something they would do over the phone. 

Given OP rang on same day would DWP even have the report?

peteuk

The time frame in which the report is written and completed depends on two things, firstly if the assessor is new to the buisness then their report will go to audit and reviewed as part of their probation.  Equally after completing probation then random auditing is completed. 

Some assessement can take three hours it depends on the claimants ability to cope with the questions and the amount of conditions there is on a claim.  It also depends on how each condition impacts each activity, as each condition will have the potential of affecting the activity differently.   Yes the report should have been written straight after the assessment, however call ing for the outcome on the day is too quick.   I would suggest at least three or four working days, if not longer. 

I would also point out that dangers of requesting scores before the decision, yes a DM may routinely go with the recommendations of the assessment however Obtaining a report before a decision can have a negative impact to the claimant if the assessment is not recommending payment. Knowing your scores has no impact on the outcome though. 

rarees1

You don't need the report unless you disagree with the decision made.  

The health assessor does not work for the DWP.  I've worked in benefits for about 20 years and I must say I have never heard of an assessment taking that long.  They are usually restricted for time.  The assessor decides which descriptor and therefore points your wife scores in each activity, remarks on their observations, etc., and uses the same quotes repeatedly to justify their decision.  Incidentally, the health professional is rarely a doctor, but either a nurse, OT, physiotherapist or paramedic.  They don't have any access to your medical records unless you provided that info to the DWP.

The health assessment is not written up during the assessment but later on and the time is recorded.  I would not expect the DWP to receive it for a couple of weeks and the there is a delay before the DWP Decision Maker looks at it.  As the DM is just an admin worker with no medical training, just learned experience from reading forms, that person cannot do anything other than follow the health assessor's assessment and therefore points.  

Your wife will receive the decision letter from the DWP which will explain the eligibilty rules, list the points awarded and the reasons why.  

If you disagree with the decision or number of points awarded she has the right to ask for another DWP DM to look  at the case again to determine whether the original DM made the wrong decision.  At that point it is useful to request the health assessment, which will horrify you.  It's best to get an experienced welfare benefits adviser to help you should it get to that stage or beyond.

All the best... and if she is successful, have a new benefits check to see if you are entitled to anything else as a couple.

Spoonie_Turtle

I would say depending on one's personality and coping strategies it can be beneficial to know if the outcome is likely to be negative based on the report, as it then gives longer to start preparing for a Mandatory Reconsideration (especially as the decision letter may take a week or more after its date to arrive through the post, and an MR needs to be lodged within a month of the decision).

That's not to say it's beneficial for everyone, but it certainly is for some.

atlantis187

The assessment started at 9.10am and lasted exactly 2hrs 22ms because we recorded the call made them aware of this and also requested them to record it to.

We phone later in the day at 4pm and the DWP guy said they have received it and will send us a copy in the post 2nd class.

Lets see what she has put down considering it was such a long assessment.

peteuk

atlantis187 said:

The assessment started at 9.10am and lasted exactly 2hrs 22ms because we recorded the call made them aware of this and also requested them to record it to.

We phone later in the day at 4pm and the DWP guy said they have received it and will send us a copy in the post 2nd class.

Lets see what she has put down considering it was such a long assessment.

The length of the assessment has no bearing on the outcome of the report.  The assessor could have zero pointed everything, depending on the answers and evidence noted.  If the assessor had done significant prep then those activities where no difficulty was claimed would have been a check thats still the case and therefore a one line answer in the report.

You also have to understand that if there is no mental health or cognative impairment conditions then other activities are automatically zero’d. Just as planing a journey is zero’d if the claimant is only claiming a physical condition.

Muttleythefrog

rarees1 said:

You don't need the report unless you disagree with the decision made.  

The health assessor does not work for the DWP.  I've worked in benefits for about 20 years and I must say I have never heard of an assessment taking that long.  They are usually restricted for time.  The assessor decides which descriptor and therefore points your wife scores in each activity, remarks on their observations, etc., and uses the same quotes repeatedly to justify their decision.  Incidentally, the health professional is rarely a doctor, but either a nurse, OT, physiotherapist or paramedic.  They don't have any access to your medical records unless you provided that info to the DWP.

The health assessment is not written up during the assessment but later on and the time is recorded.  I would not expect the DWP to receive it for a couple of weeks and the there is a delay before the DWP Decision Maker looks at it.  As the DM is just an admin worker with no medical training, just learned experience from reading forms, that person cannot do anything other than follow the health assessor's assessment and therefore points.  

Your wife will receive the decision letter from the DWP which will explain the eligibilty rules, list the points awarded and the reasons why.  

If you disagree with the decision or number of points awarded she has the right to ask for another DWP DM to look  at the case again to determine whether the original DM made the wrong decision.  At that point it is useful to request the health assessment, which will horrify you.  It's best to get an experienced welfare benefits adviser to help you should it get to that stage or beyond.

All the best... and if she is successful, have a new benefits check to see if you are entitled to anything else as a couple.

Reports typically will be with the DWP far quicker than this (often same day as in this case.. all electronic I understand) unless held up by internal quality assurance/audit at assessment company. I'd normally suggest requesting the report from DWP a working day or two after the assessment. These assessments can indeed endure this long and I think several in recent years on MSE I've seen reported beyond 2 hours... and anecdotally I'd say the longer assessments have tended to ultimately prove more useful as may be expected.

On the first point though... I would always strongly advise claimants get hold of any assessment report including paper based and keenly so in terms of time. A key problem claimants have repeatedly shown when things go wrong (and in many cases after having successfully claimed initially) is they lacked control of the facts and understanding of their claim which makes it more difficult for them to help themselves and more difficult for others to help them while increasing risks of undesirable decisions. Getting hold of the report can offer benefits... knowledge of likely decision to come (since we know PIP DWP Decision Makers infrequently shift away from the recommendation of their commissioned independent advice) which can either alleviate anxieties or give advanced warning of probable need for reconsideration request/further evidence requirements... also the benefit that in future reviews one can refer to the report where it is helpful in arguing agreement remains on disablement established... it could even be useful to a non PIP claim such as for the WCA of ESA/U-C (I'm far from alone in using reports interchangeably between benefits and they have been used by DWP DMs or their commissioned HCPs as they have referred to such in justifying their conclusions or opinions).

atlantis187

We received the report today and it was very thorough.
So the excruciating 2hr 20mins for my wife MAY lead to an award as adding all the points up comes to 18 for care and 22 for mobility - She has scored even more than last time but the downside is she had recommended a review in only 2 years.