Condensation on windows

deepam

Myci85 Thanks but its difficult to convince a tenant that his lifestyle is at fault when he is claiming the windows. 

I had doubts when I enquired that other residents are having similar problems (not at that scale of course). A resident from the same building controls her flat's condensation following all good habits blames the age of the building. And can that be a cause? A newer building will not have problems but an old building can? Insulation?

deepam

bobster2 Yes I will install extractor in the kitchen but after the current tenants leave as its not easy. Both my bathrooms has extractors.

Myci85

I think an issue is often that buildings are insulated and trying to be as air tight as possible for heat retention, but with no air flow this is where you get condensation issues. So in some ways older, draughty properties are less likely to have these issues as there is more airflow. 

That said, looking at your other post, if it is the same issue you're talking about, I'd be surprised if condensation is causing a large wall section to be soaked through, it would more likely cause water to be sitting on windows on pooling beneath, or dropping off ceilings etc. 

Is it the same issue? As one post states you live there, the other that you're the landlord?

user1977

Myci85 said:

That said, looking at your other post, if it is the same issue you're talking about, I'd be surprised if condensation is causing a large wall section to be soaked through, it would more likely cause water to be sitting on windows on pooling beneath, or dropping off ceilings etc. 

Cold spots on walls will also attract condensation.

If it's a general problem throughout the flat I agree it's unlikely to be seals etc suddenly all failing at once.

What do we know about the tenant's lifestyle? If the flat suddenly has several residents (as opposed to just one) who are drying laundry / cooking / showering (and simply breathing!) and never opening the windows, then inevitably the condensation will suddenly increase.

deepam

Myci85 I don't live there. Yes I lived there for 10 years when it was new. That wall is one of the windows. Initially I thought its a leak - still unsure (I am still having a word with management company for their assessment as the external wall is not mine) but other windows are having pool of condensation every morning as well.

user1977 I do not know much about tenant's life style but when I was there with the glazing person coming to have a look we both saw certain issues like 1) Windows were not opened even for 5 mins during the day 2) window mini events were closed 3) furniture kept very close to the radiators; covering the airflow 4) laundry on radiators. 5) Curtains never opened during the day.
These are just some issue and there were more. So the glazing personal gave some guidance to the tenant. I was mainly unhappy about the laundry as its a fire hazard. 

deepam

I am also having a word with management company regarding the damp wall. There is no leak from the flat above and there are no pipes around the window. The management company is asking me to sort the windows to isolate the problem and have not sent one builder to look at the wall. They expect me to change either windows or panes which will cost be a lot of money and not knowing if that is the problem. On calling a glazing person, I have been told that this damp on the wall is not condensation. How should I deal with this? Anywhere I can complain about this?

youth_leader

Laundry on radiators is a big no no.  Tell your tenant to buy a clothes drying rack, put it in an area the door can be closed, and buy a dehumidifier with a laundry function.

user1977

deepam said:

On calling a glazing person, I have been told that this damp on the wall is not condensation. How should I deal with this? Anywhere I can complain about this?

Is the "glazing person" the same as the "windows professional"? What qualifications do these people have? You can't "complain" to anyone if you don't know what the problem is.

I would certainly start by eliminating the condensation as the issue before a wild goose chase for "leaks" of any sort.

FreeBear

deepam said: They expect me to change either windows or panes which will cost be a lot of money and not knowing if that is the problem.

Read your lease very carefully - The freeholder is (usually) responsible for the fabric of the building, and that includes the windows.

With thermally poor performing windows (even double glazed ones), cold air forms close to the glass and drops down - This can feel like a cold draught. To check for draughts coming in around the frame & seals, an incense stick can often be used to see where air is leaking in. Or if you have the money, hire a thermal imaging camera for the day.

ThisIsWeird

Hi Deepam.
A few things that I think can be said with some certainty;
1) working out whether the puddles on the cills are from leaks or condensation is usually very straight forward. Condensation produces the tell-tale droplets on the actual glass as if sprayed on, usually along the bottoms and perimeters of the panes. Leaks will only appear as a puddle - no droplets. So, what did you see?
2) not opening the windows during the day, or even overnight, not even to 'trickle', will almost certainly cause condensation to form on the windows, and even walls if enough moisture is generated. Folk are understandably reluctant to vent their rooms as they believe it'll make the rooms 'cold' and even worse-affected, but if the moisture in the air is not largely removed by ventilation, then it needs removing by a different method, and about the only other option is a good dehumidifier.
3) draughty windows, therefore, would largely have the opposite effect to what you saw; the rooms might be more chilly, but the insides of the windows would be dry! You can prove that at any time by taking the 'draughty' to its ultimate conclusion - open a window! It'll be bludy cold, but your windows will very soon be dry.
4) drying clothes on rads is an absolute no-no. No risk of fire - assuming you mean they are water-filled CH rads - but damp clothes on hot rads will release a large amount of moisture very quickly, and not even trickle vents are likely to cope with this (and this family doesn't even trickle.) If drying must be done indoors without a TD, then it needs doing slowly, so cond-mitigating measures can cope.
5) well done for having extractors in the bathrooms - an absolute must. But, do they work effectively - does a sheet of bogroll get sucked firmly onto the vent if wafted just below it? And, do they use it? And, do they keep it running afterwards until the room is fully dry - a good 20 minutes is not unusual.
6) not having an external-venting extractor for cooking is remiss, and would almost certainly be an issue should, say, your tenants make a complaint to the LA. Do you know if they cook a lot? Boil stuff?
7) I have obviously no idea what the insulation levels are in this home - I presume not particularly high. But, that just exacerbates the symptoms of any issue, and doesn't cause it. The cause is, too much moisture not being removed or ventilated away.
8) Almost certainly, from what you've described, the main visible damp in this flat is caused by the tenants' living style; drying clothes on rads, and not ventilating the rooms. If you do these two naughty things, then you will get cond on the coldest surfaces, so that's a near-cert major cause of the problem. Any inspection would likely - largely - arrive at that conclusion too. They would pick you up on the lack of kitchen extractor, but mainly the tenants for not ventilating the property - and for the clothes-drying.
9) Whether the walls are suffering from penetrating damp or condensation, obvs no idea. But, if penetrating, then it's almost certainly a FH issue. If cond, then it's lifestyle, tho' adding insulation to the interior would help - but that's for you to consider. As with the windows, damp will be caused by excessive moisture being produced, and it not being removed.

What to do?
a) Is there a spare room or utility in the property? An unused bedroom? If so, they should put their clothes on a horse in there, open the windows wide, rad off, and shut the door. Leave for at least one day, and the majority of water will have left the clothes, and that room will be dry - but bludy freezing. Then, when just 'damp', the clothes can be brought into the warmed rooms, and placed near a rad, but not on it, and not obscuring it. That should allow the clothes to dry slowly over a further day, at a slow & controlled rate that the building can cope with.
b) Bathroom extractors should be run until the rooms are dry, no mist on the glass, no visible sheen on the ceiling. And then for 20 minutes more - they cost nowt to run.

c) Puddles should be mopped up with a damp cloth as soon as they form, and the cloth wrung out in the sink - not put on a rad to dry! Doing this is effectively doing a dehumidifier's work, albeit on a small scale.

d) They need to start to ventilate. At the very least, all the rooms should be ventilated with windows cracked open to 'vent' setting overnight, with the heating either turned off or right down - say 12oC (or 14oC or higher if they can) to save energy. Yes, it'll be chilly overnight, but there is no reason for the occupants to be - they should be snuggling under a 13 Tog, with an overnight leccy blanket if really needed (it shouldn't). They should be pleased to wake up to a dry house. The heating should be timed to come on whatever time is necessary to have the house acceptable in the morning, and some poor sod will have the job of jumping out of bed and running around closing the windows until the family is up and off to work or school. Then, all the unused bedrooms should have their rads off, windows cracked open to vent, and their doors closed until next bedtime.

e) Please consider buying them a window vacuum - £30-odd.

f) Please consider buying them a dehumidifier, but it has to be a decent one and not a toy. I have no idea which to recommend, but I've seen some suggested on here.

g) Really consider having the kitchen extractor vented to the outside asap. Yes, it can be awkward for the tenants, but it should just be a half-day task at most, so hardly a major pain.