I think my central heating isn't up to it

bob2302

mmmmikey said:

In the meantime, something to consider is switching your electricity to tariff to Octopus Agile. You could then use a fan heater to provide a heating boost at the times of day when electricity is cheap. 

Unfortunately, Agile isn't cheap in the day time any more. It needs solar to push down afternoon prices

FreeBear

FlorayG said: Loos like I will be saving up next year for a new central heating system for 2025/6

Do have a look at installing a heat pump - I've heard of people getting quotes from Octopus in the £500 to £1500 range. I had one earlier in the year from them for £2700 (not much more than I paid for a gas boiler) - This quote included larger radiators all round plus a new hot water tank.

mmmmikey said:

FlorayG said:

mmmmikey said:

Another thought is that you don't have to upgrade your central heating system in one go. You could start by putting bigger radiators in the rooms that need them most and turning down the radiators in other rooms if the boiler can't cope. Then you can change other radiators and/or the boiler as and when you can afford it.

This works out very expensive in labour though because I understand the system has to be drained to change even one radiator. I know the radiators themselves aren't expensive, it's the cost of the job

Not necessarily, as per above comments it's quite often possible to change a radiator without draining the entire system. And if you find a good local gas plumber you should be able to work out a sequence of work that ties in with your annual service so minimises the labour cost.

No need for a Gas Safe registered engineer to swap out radiators. The work doesn't involve any work to the boiler, so even a local handyman could do the job.

I've found that draining a heating system, whilst a tiresome job, is not difficult. Refilling and bleeding is sometimes a pain. And adding corrosion inhibitor to a sealed system is not that easy (a vented system, a doddle).

FlorayG

FreeBear said:

FlorayG said: Loos like I will be saving up next year for a new central heating system for 2025/6

Do have a look at installing a heat pump - I've heard of people getting quotes from Octopus in the £500 to £1500 range. I had one earlier in the year from them for £2700 (not much more than I paid for a gas boiler) - This quote included larger radiators all round plus a new hot water tank.

mmmmikey said:

FlorayG said:

mmmmikey said:

I can't fit larger radiators because of the huge windows lol. 
And a heat pump is only efficient when you have excellent insulation, which clearly I don't unless I get triple glazing

FreeBear

FlorayG said:

FreeBear said:

FlorayG said: Loos like I will be saving up next year for a new central heating system for 2025/6

Do have a look at installing a heat pump - I've heard of people getting quotes from Octopus in the £500 to £1500 range. I had one earlier in the year from them for £2700 (not much more than I paid for a gas boiler) - This quote included larger radiators all round plus a new hot water tank.

mmmmikey said:

FlorayG said:

mmmmikey said:

I can't fit larger radiators because of the huge windows lol. 
And a heat pump is only efficient when you have excellent insulation, which clearly I don't unless I get triple glazing

Poor insulation is an issue regardless of how you heat a property. And you don't need triple glazing in order to have a heat pump.

Gerry1

FlorayG said:

FreeBear said:

FlorayG said: Loos like I will be saving up next year for a new central heating system for 2025/6

Do have a look at installing a heat pump - I've heard of people getting quotes from Octopus in the £500 to £1500 range. I had one earlier in the year from them for £2700 (not much more than I paid for a gas boiler) - This quote included larger radiators all round plus a new hot water tank.

mmmmikey said:

FlorayG said:

mmmmikey said:

I can't fit larger radiators because of the huge windows lol.

But surely you can fit double or triple panelled radiators?  Single panel radiators were often installed aeons ago when central heating was effectively only for background heating.  People were expected to wear a woolly jumper or to put another log on the fire if they felt cold.

You've said that the boiler keeps firing up so the radiators seem to be the choke point.  You'll need larger radiators whatever upgrade you make, so it would be sensible to start there.

I'd suggest calling in a proper heating engineer (not just a plumber) to do a survey and do the sums and tell you the heat outputs required for the property and the radiator sizes that will deliver it.  You may find that a new boiler isn't needed, and larger radiators will certainly make it warmer, even if not absolutely optimum.

You could even do one radiator at a time.  If you go for a heat pump later then at least you will already have suitable radiators in place.

Reed_Richards

FlorayG said:

Reed_Richards said:

Turn up the target water temperature on your boiler; it's as simple as that.  That will send hotter water through your radiators and cause them to give out more heat.  But it will increase your running costs because keeping your house warmer will increase your running costs.  And turning up the water temperature will reduce the combustion efficiency of your boiler (although possibly more so with a new boiler than with an old one).

Can you explain this please? Because the radiators are already red hot, how much hotter can they get?

They can get as hot as your boiler will allow.  That might be 80 C flow and 60 C return so the average radiator temperature is 70 C.

If your boiler is already set to its maximum and your TRVs are not limiting the radiator output then the only thing you can do is get radiators with a larger surface area.  They don't have to be physically larger than your existing ones but double panel double fin (Type 22) could very significantly increase your heat output if you only have single panel radiators at present. 

ic

You mentioned a surveyor said insulation was pointless.  This seems crazy, unless you're living in a greenhouse, then insulating any walls and the roof is absolutely worthwhile.  Check if you can get support for this: https://www.gov.uk/apply-great-british-insulation-scheme

Otherwise, check if your rads need bleeding.  Do you have carpets, or are you living with bare floors?  Bare floors will be cold.  Seeking out and sealing up draughts can make a very big difference to room temperature.

Scot_39

FlorayG said:

Reed_Richards said:

Turn up the target water temperature on your boiler; it's as simple as that.  That will send hotter water through your radiators and cause them to give out more heat.  But it will increase your running costs because keeping your house warmer will increase your running costs.  And turning up the water temperature will reduce the combustion efficiency of your boiler (although possibly more so with a new boiler than with an old one).

Can you explain this please? Because the radiators are already red hot, how much hotter can they get?

Some boilers ship with flow temp set upto 75-80 degrees iirc - but during the crisis it was suggested people might drop it to say 60C to save on combi's or 65C on HW tank based systems.

And on combis - potentially even below 60C - as system loss and efficiency increased.

And in milder weather - even as low as 50-55C - see e.g.

https://energysavingtrust.org.uk/should-i-turn-boilers-flow-temperature-down/

https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/one-simple-way-to-adjust-your-boiler-to-lower-your-heating-bill-atXmR3z2RY92

Or in simple advise - this by BG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7FTrKH5Oq8

Even 50C by the way might feel "red hot" (by the way they are not red hot - red hot literally means actually glowing red - that would be well over 400C for steel to start glowing even dull red) it's hot enough to scald in theory with prolonged exposure.  Such as water in a bath etc - which is why hot water taps for baths / bidets domestically are limited to 48C in new builds - and hot outlets - a lower 43C - in certain health / care situations.

And the reason ASHP often involve fitting bigger radiators - is that for efficiency - they ideally run even lower - typically around as low as 35C level - but maybe 45C more typical.

And iirc the effective power - often quoted in BTU in past - but now typically in kW too - is quoted at a nominal delta T -  iirc 50C not uncommon - so 65C radiator in a 15C room after overnight drop. 

chris_n

For cheap temporary improvements, 
Given that you don't want the curtains closed during the day (neither would I) use a film kit on your windows to help reduce the cold radiating from the glass or as mentioned earlier damp bubble wrap will stick to the glass and is easy to remove later.
Next cheapest is to use a fan or 2 to blow air across the radiators.
Next given that you have solar you should bee able to run a 400W oil filled radiator under your desk for free for most of most days.
After that you have to start spending money, depending on the pipework it is sometimes possible to replace a single radiator with a double without draining the system, I have done that twice myself but know it isn't always possible. 
Is it possible to replace your current radiators with slightly taller ones? For example changing from a 1m x 500mm to a 1m by 700mm will give you 25% more heat and the radiator itself would be £63 at Screwfix prices.

FlorayG

ic said:

You mentioned a surveyor said insulation was pointless.  This seems crazy, unless you're living in a greenhouse, then insulating any walls and the roof is absolutely worthwhile.  Check if you can get support for this: https://www.gov.uk/apply-great-british-insulation-scheme

Otherwise, check if your rads need bleeding.  Do you have carpets, or are you living with bare floors?  Bare floors will be cold.  Seeking out and sealing up draughts can make a very big difference to room temperature.

In the living room, two walls are 50% glass and the third is 30% glass. The back of the house has a garden room covers kitchen and main bedroom so already pretty well insulated (my bedroom is the only window still has the original single glazing and it's never freezing in there) and the wall against the integral garage has 3 inch thick block insulation on the garage side so basically the only wall worth cavity wall insulation is the north facing walls of the bathroom and the single bedroom.
I can't really complain about the windows, they are one of the things I like most about this house; I'm just trying to maximise efficiency of what I have
Rads all working and hot all over. I have carpet, I hate it but probably will be having to keep it for insulation purposes.
Thanks all for lots of ideas I will have a go at as many as I can