DIY holiday

zagfles

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

It seems to me that many travellers, especially experienced ones, are more than happy to take care of changing plans themselves, and in many (but not all) cases airlines will be happy to reimburse reasonable costs.  However, there are also plenty of other travellers who either don't feel able or willing to cope with this, and simply expect the airline to stick to the letter of the law, which is an equally valid point of view.

But the point was that even if they don't, there's the option to sort it yourself and claim.

My point is that the regulations oblige airlines to offer accommodation, meals and replacement flights, but there's no unilateral legal right for passengers to take matters into their own hands and then claim the costs back - obviously in many cases this will be a pragmatic thing to do, and most of the time airlines, especially more reputable ones, will reimburse, but in the event of disputes it leaves the passenger exposed to the risk of failing to secure some or all of their money back, especially if they fail to discuss options with the airline first, as seen on these boards.

zagfles said:
People seem to be scared of booking packages because of supposed lack of protection, but that protection is there, just like with packages, except as you said above the advantage of packages is cover the other linked stuff like accommodation. There seem to be plenty of package companies that get an equally bad rap for not fulfilling their obligations as airlines, just look at the first page on this board, there are at least 4!

I presume that your first reference to 'packages' should be 'DIY', as otherwise you're comparing packages with packages?  And yes, there are plenty of package providers who let their customers down in many ways, especially the 'bucket shop' online travel agents, so it's undoubtedly more nuanced than 'package good, DIY bad' (or the other way round for that matter!).

Oops yes, I meant there's protection for delays, cancellations etc with both flights and packages. Both can and do let passengers down so having the ability to sort things out yourself is useful. But it does seem some people become somewhat infantilised as soon as they set foot outside their country, or become armchair lawyers.

IME if you act reasonably with companies like airlines, hotels etc, they'll act reasonably with you, regardless of the letter of the law, sometimes not fulfilling their strict legal obligations, but often going way above their legal obligations (eg refunding/rescheduling non refundable accommodation, rebooking unlinked flights etc). Personally I'd prefer dealing with an airline and/or a hotel than a small travel agent/tour operator in the event of a problem. 

eskbanker

zagfles said:

eskbanker said:

zagfles said:

It seems to me that many travellers, especially experienced ones, are more than happy to take care of changing plans themselves, and in many (but not all) cases airlines will be happy to reimburse reasonable costs.  However, there are also plenty of other travellers who either don't feel able or willing to cope with this, and simply expect the airline to stick to the letter of the law, which is an equally valid point of view.

But the point was that even if they don't, there's the option to sort it yourself and claim.

My point is that the regulations oblige airlines to offer accommodation, meals and replacement flights, but there's no unilateral legal right for passengers to take matters into their own hands and then claim the costs back - obviously in many cases this will be a pragmatic thing to do, and most of the time airlines, especially more reputable ones, will reimburse, but in the event of disputes it leaves the passenger exposed to the risk of failing to secure some or all of their money back, especially if they fail to discuss options with the airline first, as seen on these boards.

zagfles said:
People seem to be scared of booking packages because of supposed lack of protection, but that protection is there, just like with packages, except as you said above the advantage of packages is cover the other linked stuff like accommodation. There seem to be plenty of package companies that get an equally bad rap for not fulfilling their obligations as airlines, just look at the first page on this board, there are at least 4!

I presume that your first reference to 'packages' should be 'DIY', as otherwise you're comparing packages with packages?  And yes, there are plenty of package providers who let their customers down in many ways, especially the 'bucket shop' online travel agents, so it's undoubtedly more nuanced than 'package good, DIY bad' (or the other way round for that matter!).

Oops yes, I meant there's protection for delays, cancellations etc with both flights and packages. Both can and do let passengers down so having the ability to sort things out yourself is useful. But it does seem some people become somewhat infantilised as soon as they set foot outside their country, or become armchair lawyers.

IME if you act reasonably with companies like airlines, hotels etc, they'll act reasonably with you, regardless of the letter of the law, sometimes not fulfilling their strict legal obligations, but often going way above their legal obligations (eg refunding/rescheduling non refundable accommodation, rebooking unlinked flights etc). Personally I'd prefer dealing with an airline and/or a hotel than a small travel agent/tour operator in the event of a problem.

Yes, horses for courses I think - some value the additional protection from packages, especially the rights granted by the Package Travel Regulations, but others (including me, I should add!) are happy to DIY.  As you say, some airlines and hotels (and agents and package providers) will be more customer-oriented than others, but it does seem sensible to me to at least be aware of one's legal rights under the various regulations, in order to inform discussions about options if/when needed.

dont_use_vistaprint

Grumpy_chap said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

35 years of travelling 150+ countries, I’ve never once taken travel insurance.

I, too, have travelled many times booking flights and hotels separately and arranging all ancillaries (transfers and such like) locally.

I am not so sure that I'd go for the "no travel insurance" approach, though.  I do agree there are a lot of things that you can carry the risk / self insure but the big part anyone (IMO) really needs to have travel insurance for is health cover.  Anyone can fall ill at any time with no notice or reason, or anyone can suffer an accident.  Health costs can spiral very rapidly.  There is also the "comfort" factor that if you are unable to locate suitable health facility easily, the insurer's 24-hour contact centre might well have health facilities that they can get you booked into more swiftly.

I’ve been ill twice abroad in 30+ years if travel where I needed more than a paracetamol and rest - in Turkey I got tonsillitis and had to have antibiotic injections daily. It cost me about £150 in total, I got malaria in Nigeria, I had to go to the hospital, get hydrated and a course of tablets That cost me about $25 in total.

You should insure the things that concern and worry you and you think you will need to claim. 

dont_use_vistaprint

citygirlblue said:

Thanks everyone. I've booked flights (direct with EasyJet) and an Airbnb. I'd never travel without insurance, so can anyone recommend a provider that would cover my hotel costs if EasyJet cancelled at short notice or vice versa. Cheers.

I’m not sure why you’re so worried about flights being cancelled. It hardly ever happens and they just stick you on the next flight anyway.

Just go to compare the market or one of those places and search for either single trip or annual travel insurance or ask your bank and credit card I found recently the HSBC Premier includes free travel insurance that I’ve never even know about

dont_use_vistaprint

NoodleDoodleMan said:

comeandgo said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

heatherw_01 said:

I have booked flight and hotel separate for hundreds of trips over 20 years.
No issues.
I use reputable companies and have travel insurance that covers the things you mentioned, for all trips.

Presumably you've never had a flight cancelled with late notice and subsequently abandoned by the airline ?

At the moment I’m on a 9 week self arranged holiday to three different countries, this is the fifth one I’ve organised. In the past  I have had flights cancelled at late notice  or delayed but never been abandoned by the airline.  We make sure there is plenty time allowance if changing planes at an airport .  Always book directly with airline.  Also, be aware if not in Europe there may be no requirement for an airline to arrange anything for you or any compensation if flight late or cancelled.

We've been effectively abandoned after short notice cancellation - Easyjet at Amsterdam airport this July.

Many Easyjet passengers in similar circumstances.

Aeroplanes are not your mum. When you travel independently, you often have to sort out your own stuff and solve your own problems

 it really isn’t very difficult to get on a bus or taxi from an airport and go and sit in a restaurant for a few hours or put yourself into an Airbnb or budget hotel/hostel until the next flight is it?  Keep ALL your receipts and you’ll probably get the lot back

if you need someone to do that for you then you probably shouldn’t be travelling independently.

NoodleDoodleMan

dont_use_vistaprint said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

comeandgo said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

heatherw_01 said:

I have booked flight and hotel separate for hundreds of trips over 20 years.
No issues.
I use reputable companies and have travel insurance that covers the things you mentioned, for all trips.

Presumably you've never had a flight cancelled with late notice and subsequently abandoned by the airline ?

At the moment I’m on a 9 week self arranged holiday to three different countries, this is the fifth one I’ve organised. In the past  I have had flights cancelled at late notice  or delayed but never been abandoned by the airline.  We make sure there is plenty time allowance if changing planes at an airport .  Always book directly with airline.  Also, be aware if not in Europe there may be no requirement for an airline to arrange anything for you or any compensation if flight late or cancelled.

We've been effectively abandoned after short notice cancellation - Easyjet at Amsterdam airport this July.

Many Easyjet passengers in similar circumstances.

Aeroplanes are not your mum. When you travel independently, you often have to sort out your own stuff and solve your own problems

 it really isn’t very difficult to get on a bus or taxi from an airport and go and sit in a restaurant for a few hours or put yourself into an Airbnb or budget hotel/hostel until the next flight is it?  Keep ALL your receipts and you’ll probably get the lot back

if you need someone to do that for you then you probably shouldn’t be travelling independently.

In our case there was no Easyjet flight back to Edinburgh for 3 days - and there were several elderly passengers, at least one with mobility issues stranded and abandoned in Amsterdam.

I think there may have been a family with young children (not in our party) who were in a similar position.

So yes, it can be very difficult in certain circumstances.

"if you need someone to do that for you then you probably shouldn’t be travelling independently."

I first flew abroad in 1958 (and countless times since) so I do understand the potential pitfalls of travelling, independently or otherwise.

Grumpy_chap

dont_use_vistaprint said:

Grumpy_chap said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

35 years of travelling 150+ countries, I’ve never once taken travel insurance.

I, too, have travelled many times booking flights and hotels separately and arranging all ancillaries (transfers and such like) locally.

I am not so sure that I'd go for the "no travel insurance" approach, though.  I do agree there are a lot of things that you can carry the risk / self insure but the big part anyone (IMO) really needs to have travel insurance for is health cover.  Anyone can fall ill at any time with no notice or reason, or anyone can suffer an accident.  Health costs can spiral very rapidly.  There is also the "comfort" factor that if you are unable to locate suitable health facility easily, the insurer's 24-hour contact centre might well have health facilities that they can get you booked into more swiftly.

I’ve been ill twice abroad in 30+ years if travel where I needed more than a paracetamol and rest - in Turkey I got tonsillitis and had to have antibiotic injections daily. It cost me about £150 in total, I got malaria in Nigeria, I had to go to the hospital, get hydrated and a course of tablets That cost me about $25 in total.

You should insure the things that concern and worry you and you think you will need to claim. 

Most people most of the time don't get ill or have an accident while on holiday.
The same applies for being at home.
The value of medical cover when travelling is not minor ailments just outside of what can be covered by a Pharmacist but the rare event that might occur and require full-on hospital treatment - issues that can arise from an accident or sudden health events such as a stroke / heart attack.  Without health cover, these issues when they occur could bankrupt many.

eskbanker

NoodleDoodleMan said:

"if you need someone to do that for you then you probably shouldn’t be travelling independently."

I first flew abroad in 1958 (and countless times since) so I do understand the potential pitfalls of travelling, independently or otherwise.

But you still found it 'astonishing' that a low cost UK airline didn't have onsite staff available to rebook flights for a planeload of passengers at a European airport, which would perhaps suggest that your expectations haven't caught up with the way that contemporary airlines work?

Doshwaster

dont_use_vistaprint said:

Grumpy_chap said:

dont_use_vistaprint said:

35 years of travelling 150+ countries, I’ve never once taken travel insurance.

I, too, have travelled many times booking flights and hotels separately and arranging all ancillaries (transfers and such like) locally.

I am not so sure that I'd go for the "no travel insurance" approach, though.  I do agree there are a lot of things that you can carry the risk / self insure but the big part anyone (IMO) really needs to have travel insurance for is health cover.  Anyone can fall ill at any time with no notice or reason, or anyone can suffer an accident.  Health costs can spiral very rapidly.  There is also the "comfort" factor that if you are unable to locate suitable health facility easily, the insurer's 24-hour contact centre might well have health facilities that they can get you booked into more swiftly.

I’ve been ill twice abroad in 30+ years if travel where I needed more than a paracetamol and rest - in Turkey I got tonsillitis and had to have antibiotic injections daily. It cost me about £150 in total, I got malaria in Nigeria, I had to go to the hospital, get hydrated and a course of tablets That cost me about $25 in total.

You should insure the things that concern and worry you and you think you will need to claim. 

I'm not worried about paying for a few stitches or antibiotics out of my own pocket - cost is going to be less than the insurance excess anyway and I wouldn't be that upset about losing a suitcase full of clothes. 

What does worry me is having a serious accident abroad, spending several days in hospital and needing a specialist medical evacuation back to the UK.  Of course the chances are very remote which is why travel insurance is cheap.

Too often you see people without any insurance resorting to GoFundMe pages in order to get themselves or their family home. 

NoodleDoodleMan

eskbanker said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

"if you need someone to do that for you then you probably shouldn’t be travelling independently."

I first flew abroad in 1958 (and countless times since) so I do understand the potential pitfalls of travelling, independently or otherwise.

But you still found it 'astonishing' that a low cost UK airline didn't have onsite staff available to rebook flights for a planeload of passengers at a European airport, which would perhaps suggest that your expectations haven't caught up with the way that contemporary airlines work?

There were plenty of uniformed Easyjet staff on duty - so yes, I was astonished that their level of assistance was to give me their UK telephone number and direct me to a service agent who handed out A5 pamphlets.

Otherwise they were totally disinterested.

My only expectation was that I would be given guidance and advice on how to proceed - obviously that's an assumption too far.