DIY holiday

oldernonethewiser

dont_use_vistaprint said:

citygirlblue said:

I'm looking at booking my own flight and hotel on separate websites. I know doing this is a bit of a risk. My worry is, if my flight gets cancelled/heavily delayed or my hotel goes bust, would I get my money back if I buy insurance with cancellation cover? Expedia are ATOL covered - is ATOL better than cancellation insurance? Thanks. 

It’s the only way I’ve ever traveled!!

Airlines and hotels rarely go out of business and hotels don’t usually take payment until you arrive.

the risks are almost always with travel agents that take money up front. 

Use booking dot com for accommodation. Use sky scanner to find the cheapest flights , even via a 3rd party you get a PNR with the airline within 24 hours.

if your flight is delayed or cancelled the airline will ensure you get to the destination as quickly as possible, lose a few hours or a day at most and they will compensate you.

Using travel agents as a huge risk in my opinion and  almost always grossly over priced . 

35 years of travelling 150+ countries, I’ve never once taken travel insurance.

Transfers - local bus  recently from airport in Turkey cost me 150 TRY and dropped me outside the hotel , £3.39 and a taxi to the hotel in Samarkand was less than £1, travel agents charge about £50 for a transfer 

Sounds like my in-laws

All was fine until one of them took seriously unwell on holiday and had to stay in a foreign country for many months.

Cost the family thousands of pounds and damaged family relationships, irreparably.

I always book direct and always have travel insurance.

jimi_man

NoodleDoodleMan said:

After we got airside at Schiphol - Easyjet texted to say the flight was delayed, sometime later the departure board announced it was cancelled, that's when the problems started.

Nothing from Easyjet - we found a member of staff at one of their check in desks whose only "help" was to write down the main 'phone number back in the UK (which we all had anyway) and direct us to a Menzies service agent for further assistance.

That consisted of an A5 handout giving details of EU261 regulations and how to claim compensation once we arrived home.

That was the extent of their Duty of Care.

This was on the Monday late afternoon and we ascertained that there wasn't another Easyjet flight to Edinburgh until the Thursday.

There was no Easyjet service desk within the airport, an astonishing discovery considering the volume of their traffic in and out of Amsterdam.

So. yes, we were effectively abandoned airside at Schipol with no further practical assistance.

Fortunately our tour operator Newmarket Holidays came to the rescue and cobbled together a repatriation package at short notice which consisted of coach, sea ferry and people carrier transport accompanied to Edinburgh by two members of staff.

I can't speak highly enough of them - Easyjet on the other hand.............................

I should clarify, ‘Duty of Care’ doesn’t necessarily mean that they will do everything and the CAA recognise this and state what I did above - that you are to sort food/drink/accommodation out yourself and then claim it back later. As I mentioned above Low Cost airlines just don’t have the staff as that’s their business model. Having said that even major airlines don’t have large amounts of staff at outstations though there will usually be some - either the airlines own staff or contracted out. 

DIY is still ok to do and I probably do it 50% of the time often where there is no package available. However if I do a package I prefer to use operators like BA Holidays (reputedly one of the best around) though not the cheapest and who are tied to the airline, rather than independent operators. With DIY, we will tend to put in some resilience into our plans. 

I tend to use BA or OneWorld airlines the vast majority of the time - partly because of status with the airline but also because of the alternatives available to their destinations and the backup (though they aren’t perfect). I have used EasyJet but I won’t use RyanAir (partly through their reputation but mostly because Stansted is a huge trek away). 

Packages can be good for the protection aspect though the disadvantage is that - other than the day of travel - TAs are responsible for all re bookings etc, not the airlines and they can be a little intractable depending on the TA. 

Your situation sounds a bit of a mess, but got sorted in the end. 

NoodleDoodleMan

bagand96 said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

bagand96 said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

"UK and EU airlines won't leave you abandoned"

I beg to differ.

Easyjet did just that to us (and all the other passengers) on a flight from Amsterdam to Edinburgh on Monday 15th July 2024.

I can go into detail if needed.

There is a Facebook site dedicated to complaints against the airline.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192989321777

In that case you had a package holiday with a tour operator that looked after you as per their responsibility under the PTR's.  Doesn't excuse easyJet of course, but was a happy outcome, and backs up the argument for packages over DIY for those that prefer them (although like airlines, package operators and the quality of service do vary!)

With zero help from Easyjet - had we made the flight reservations with them direct their "help" would have been just as effective I reckon.

Problem is people are happy to DIY on booking to save money. But they're not happy to DIY when something goes wrong, they expect full service assistance.

Not saying airlines shouldn't do better (and IMHO there's much worse than easyjet!)  but when I DIY I accept some responsibility. 

The flights were part of the package from Newmarket Holidays, so no DIY input from me.

That aside, if an airline cancels a flight there has to be a basic Duty of Care responsibility to help the passenger in distress - I don't accept that low budget airfares are a "get out of jail" card for such carriers.

I'm sure there are worse (everything is relative) airlines in this respect than Easyjet - however I wouldn't go near them.

eskbanker

NoodleDoodleMan said:
That aside, if an airline cancels a flight there has to be a basic Duty of Care responsibility to help the passenger in distress - I don't accept that low budget airfares are a "get out of jail" card for such carriers.

I think it just comes down to expectations - you feel that they should have had staff present to allow a face to face conversation about rebooking options, etc, but their model is to direct people towards call centre/website/app, which, to be fair, isn't unusual.

bagand96

NoodleDoodleMan said:

bagand96 said

Problem is people are happy to DIY on booking to save money. But they're not happy to DIY when something goes wrong, they expect full service assistance.

Not saying airlines shouldn't do better (and IMHO there's much worse than easyjet!)  but when I DIY I accept some responsibility. 

The flights were part of the package from Newmarket Holidays, so no DIY input from me.

That aside, if an airline cancels a flight there has to be a basic Duty of Care responsibility to help the passenger in distress - I don't accept that low budget airfares are a "get out of jail" card for such carriers.

I'm sure there are worse (everything is relative) airlines in this respect than Easyjet - however I wouldn't go near them.

I understand in your case it was a package, and the operator arranged an alternative.  I was talking more generally about travellers who go DIY but then also have an expectation that there will be someone else responsible for disruption etc.

There is a legal right to duty of care as well as rebooking options and compensation across Europe - there's no get out of jail free, nor have I seen anyone suggest that.  The practicalities of that duty of care and rebooking etc vary greatly depending on the company you're dealing with and also the specifics of the situation.  

bagand96

Voyager2002 said:

bagand96 said:

citygirlblue said:

Thanks everyone. I've booked flights (direct with EasyJet) and an Airbnb. I'd never travel without insurance, so can anyone recommend a provider that would cover my hotel costs if EasyJet cancelled at short notice or vice versa. Cheers.

EU and UK law protects you (EC261) for short notice cancellations and as others have pointed out the airline is responsible for replacement flights and hotel accommodation if required.

People's experiences do vary and some operators are better than others. What most airlines don't have is teams of people at airports ready to rebook you and assist with hotels etc. easyjet for example will direct people to their app or website to rebook. 

My advice is to have a credit card with you when travelling for emergencies. If the airline cancel and don't help, or just offer a flight in 3 days you can then pay for alternative flights and/or hotels as required. You can then claim the money back later. 

That is fine in principle... in practice, there is always the worry that a last-minute replacement flight is really expensive, and what if the airline refuse to pay? We are supposed to give them a reasonable opportunity to make the booking. When it turns out to be difficult to communicate with the airline, it is hard to know at what point to give up and pay a high price for last-minute alternative arrangements.

You are correct there is always the worry.  I'm fortunate that I know and understand my EC261 rights pretty well, but accept not all passengers will do (although they are notified at the time of booking/check-in).  I've never actually been in the situation abroad with a last minute cancellation but I'd ensure I made reasonable efforts to deal with the airline, screenshot everything I could, including replacement flight options and costs, same with hotels etc.

Couple of years ago easyJet cancelled a flight on me 6 days before departure. Their email was to rebook on their website or take a refund. They didn't have another flight for 3 days which was useless, so I ignored the rebook and refund options.  I booked an alternative airline, at significant extra cost.  Submitted my claim for EC261 compo as well as expenses for the new booking.  Both paid within a couple of weeks. No drama. 

It does make it much easier if it's a UK based operator knowing that Small Claims is an easy fallback.

Doshwaster

bagand96 said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

bagand96 said:

NoodleDoodleMan said:

"UK and EU airlines won't leave you abandoned"

I beg to differ.

Easyjet did just that to us (and all the other passengers) on a flight from Amsterdam to Edinburgh on Monday 15th July 2024.

I can go into detail if needed.

There is a Facebook site dedicated to complaints against the airline.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/192989321777

In that case you had a package holiday with a tour operator that looked after you as per their responsibility under the PTR's.  Doesn't excuse easyJet of course, but was a happy outcome, and backs up the argument for packages over DIY for those that prefer them (although like airlines, package operators and the quality of service do vary!)

With zero help from Easyjet - had we made the flight reservations with them direct their "help" would have been just as effective I reckon.

Problem is people are happy to DIY on booking to save money. But they're not happy to DIY when something goes wrong, they expect full service assistance.

Not saying airlines shouldn't do better (and IMHO there's much worse than easyjet!)  but when I DIY I accept some responsibility. 

If it's a late cancellation then I always feel sorry for the poor soul on the customer services desk who has to try to rebook flights or find accomodation of a plane-load of people. I'd rather help them out by sorting something out myself or at least offer them my prefered option. The amount of abuse they get from passengers is disgraceful.  

Grumpy_chap

bagand96 said:

I'm fortunate that I know and understand my EC261 rights pretty well, but accept not all passengers will do (although they are notified at the time of booking/check-in).  I've never actually been in the situation abroad with a last minute cancellation but I'd ensure I made reasonable efforts to deal with the airline, screenshot everything I could, including replacement flight options and costs, same with hotels etc.

I had a flight cancelled en-route many years ago (pre compensation days) - landed at Madrid but the connecting flight to LHR was cancelled.  BA were very efficient at arranging transfer, hotel (inc meals) and return to the airport the next day.

Late 2019, I had a connecting flight to Amsterdam cancelled on arrival at LHR.  (Apparently, they'd e-mailed the night before but I never received the message before travelling to the air port for 6 am departure.)  KLM were initially insistent on their group flights so the proposed re-route would have taken over 24-hours.  I declined the proposed re-route and, with some reluctance, KLM booked me to an Air France route that I located as available using Sky Scanner.  After the event, the EC261 and costs were processed quite simply and efficiently.

I actually wonder whether the airlines have got more robust in defending the process now that the passenger knowledge is increasing.  Last month, we flew RyanAir to Spain.  The flight out was delayed (not by much as it turned out).  RyanAir immediately sent a message in the app linking to a video (supposedly recorded that morning) of a lady saying the issue with flights departing UK was all down to fog and therefore not down to RyanAir - this was entirely plausible given the thick fog outside the window.  When we boarded the plane, the Captain announced that the delay was down to air traffic restrictions leaving the departure airport before the turn around so, again, stated not down to RyanAir.  This means I had two separate reasons given for the delay and both stated "not RyanAir's fault" and both in non-durable medium.  If there was a delay that triggered the length required for compensation, how do you even find out now what the true reason for delay was?

jimi_man

Grumpy_chap said:

bagand96 said:

I'm fortunate that I know and understand my EC261 rights pretty well, but accept not all passengers will do (although they are notified at the time of booking/check-in).  I've never actually been in the situation abroad with a last minute cancellation but I'd ensure I made reasonable efforts to deal with the airline, screenshot everything I could, including replacement flight options and costs, same with hotels etc.

I had a flight cancelled en-route many years ago (pre compensation days) - landed at Madrid but the connecting flight to LHR was cancelled.  BA were very efficient at arranging transfer, hotel (inc meals) and return to the airport the next day.


I actually wonder whether the airlines have got more robust in defending the process now that the passenger knowledge is increasing.  Last month, we flew RyanAir to Spain.  The flight out was delayed (not by much as it turned out).  RyanAir immediately sent a message in the app linking to a video (supposedly recorded that morning) of a lady saying the issue with flights departing UK was all down to fog and therefore not down to RyanAir - this was entirely plausible given the thick fog outside the window.  When we boarded the plane, the Captain announced that the delay was down to air traffic restrictions leaving the departure airport before the turn around so, again, stated not down to RyanAir.  This means I had two separate reasons given for the delay and both stated "not RyanAir's fault" and both in non-durable medium.  If there was a delay that triggered the length required for compensation, how do you even find out now what the true reason for delay was?

Actually not two separate reasons but probably the same reason. Fog causes delays simply because of the ATC restrictions, as reduced visibility means reduced flow rate so there will be delays and cancellations resulting. 

zagfles

bagand96 said:

Voyager2002 said:

bagand96 said:

citygirlblue said:

Thanks everyone. I've booked flights (direct with EasyJet) and an Airbnb. I'd never travel without insurance, so can anyone recommend a provider that would cover my hotel costs if EasyJet cancelled at short notice or vice versa. Cheers.

EU and UK law protects you (EC261) for short notice cancellations and as others have pointed out the airline is responsible for replacement flights and hotel accommodation if required.

People's experiences do vary and some operators are better than others. What most airlines don't have is teams of people at airports ready to rebook you and assist with hotels etc. easyjet for example will direct people to their app or website to rebook. 

My advice is to have a credit card with you when travelling for emergencies. If the airline cancel and don't help, or just offer a flight in 3 days you can then pay for alternative flights and/or hotels as required. You can then claim the money back later. 

That is fine in principle... in practice, there is always the worry that a last-minute replacement flight is really expensive, and what if the airline refuse to pay? We are supposed to give them a reasonable opportunity to make the booking. When it turns out to be difficult to communicate with the airline, it is hard to know at what point to give up and pay a high price for last-minute alternative arrangements.

You are correct there is always the worry.  I'm fortunate that I know and understand my EC261 rights pretty well, but accept not all passengers will do (although they are notified at the time of booking/check-in).  I've never actually been in the situation abroad with a last minute cancellation but I'd ensure I made reasonable efforts to deal with the airline, screenshot everything I could, including replacement flight options and costs, same with hotels etc.

Couple of years ago easyJet cancelled a flight on me 6 days before departure. Their email was to rebook on their website or take a refund. They didn't have another flight for 3 days which was useless, so I ignored the rebook and refund options.  I booked an alternative airline, at significant extra cost.  Submitted my claim for EC261 compo as well as expenses for the new booking.  Both paid within a couple of weeks. No drama. 

It does make it much easier if it's a UK based operator knowing that Small Claims is an easy fallback.

Similar happened to me a few times, including last minute cancellation, and missed connections. I'm not sure what people expect, staff to be available to book you a hotel, tell you where to get something to eat, or look up alternative flights? If you're not capable of that best stick to packages. But you booked the flights/hotels in the first place so why wouldn't you be? 

When it's happened to me have always got all my expenses back, plus in one case a decent amount of compensation on top, plus an extra couple of days holiday!