No EPC ,no contract, tenants rights?

Burgerbabe

Hi this is my first discussion on here. I'm a bit stuck and need help please.
Iv rented and lived in my flat for 17years. I don't have a contract. I don't have an EPC rating.
The landlady (who is 96) moved country and now we deal with her son but still pay rent to her. They are lovely people and we have a good relationship with them.
 We have always done minor repairs and have put a new kitchen and bathroom in the flat as the rent is ridiculously cheap. The son wants to sell the flat eventually...maybe to us but he's in no rush, but my question is if he has an EPC done and it's not fit for rental...as I suspect as it's a building built in 1860 with no insulation anywhere, will we have to be evicted or can we carry on living there? And if we get temporarily evicted for works done to improve the place ,do I have to pay to rent somewhere else or does the landlord have to pay it? As rental in my area will be 3x the amount I'm paying here. Thank you for any help and advice

Mr.Generous

EPC rule came into force 2008 so you shouldn't be renting now. Rent is ridiculously low, why not just keep it quiet? They will have to have an EPC to sell, and if they have one a home built in 1860 may well be exempt - check the rules.

Alderbank

You do have a contract. You have had a contract since the day you moved in and first paid rent.

You say your landlady recently moved country. Which country do you live in? Tenancy law is different in different countries.

theartfullodger

Yes, you have an entirely legal tenancy , verbal (assuming it's England).  Bonkers I know!  Other countries have more sensible laws 

(Assuming England) Please advise us what country you and landlady are in?  Did landlady when she moved country give you her ACTUAL new address and an address in England or Wales to contact her?  If no possible fine and criminal offence for her (actual address) and no rent due (!) (an address in England or Wales).

As nothing in writing then any (assuming England) s21 notice to evict you will almost certainly be invalid - basically you are safe there 

The owner (not son..) can sell it but your tenancy would continue with new owner becoming your landlord.

This all may be an opportunity for owner to give you a lot of £££ to persuade you to move.  I'd want over £25,000 but I'm a greedy landlord (like most landlords).

Do you have a citizens advice you can visit and talk through your options?  If so please do so 

Idiot landlady and son, good luck!

newsgroupmonkey_

theartfullodger said:

Yes, you have an entirely legal tenancy , verbal (assuming it's England).  Bonkers I know!  Other countries have more sensible laws 

(Assuming England) Please advise us what country you and landlady are in?  Did landlady when she moved country give you her ACTUAL new address and an address in England or Wales to contact her?  If no possible fine and criminal offence for her (actual address) and no rent due (!) (an address in England or Wales).

As nothing in writing then any (assuming England) s21 notice to evict you will almost certainly be invalid - basically you are safe there 

The owner (not son..) can sell it but your tenancy would continue with new owner becoming your landlord.

This all may be an opportunity for owner to give you a lot of £££ to persuade you to move.  I'd want over £25,000 but I'm a greedy landlord (like most landlords).

Do you have a citizens advice you can visit and talk through your options?  If so please do so 

Idiot landlady and son, good luck!

Can they not do a Section 13 and bring the rent up to market rates?

FlorayG

I know, nobody is answering your actual question...because I want to  know the answer too   

Mr.Generous

FlorayG said:

I know, nobody is answering your actual question...because I want to  know the answer too   

I thought I answered it. They are not allowed to rent it without an EPC unless it's excempt. You don't have to have a written contract to rent. What I am saying is that the OP stated "the rent is ridiculously cheap" so if they raise the issue about EPC and the landlord goes ahead and commisions one, where it may well say not possible to achieve correct band without altering the charactor of the building (or whatever the wording is) then you can bet the rent is no longer going to be ridiculously cheap and the good relationship, and possibility of buying the place is going to be at risk. Why would you risk it??

FlorayG

Mr.Generous said:

FlorayG said:

I know, nobody is answering your actual question...because I want to  know the answer too   

I thought I answered it. They are not allowed to rent it without an EPC unless it's excempt. You don't have to have a written contract to rent. What I am saying is that the OP stated "the rent is ridiculously cheap" so if they raise the issue about EPC and the landlord goes ahead and commisions one, where it may well say not possible to achieve correct band without altering the charactor of the building (or whatever the wording is) then you can bet the rent is no longer going to be ridiculously cheap and the good relationship, and possibility of buying the place is going to be at risk. Why would you risk it??

OP is asking;
1. Can OP still rent it if the EPC comes back below the current required level?
2. If the landlord needs to do major works to bring it up to standard, what are the tenants rights while this goes on?

I don't see the OP asking if the rent will increase; I'm sure he knows it will have to

Burgerbabe

Alderbank said:

You do have a contract. You have had a contract since the day you moved in and first paid rent.

You say your landlady recently moved country. Which country do you live in? Tenancy law is different in different countries.

I am in England. Landlady has moved to France. 
I didn't realise I had a contract even if I hadn't signed anything, that's good to know thank you.

Burgerbabe

FlorayG said:

Mr.Generous said:

FlorayG said:

I know, nobody is answering your actual question...because I want to  know the answer too   

I thought I answered it. They are not allowed to rent it without an EPC unless it's excempt. You don't have to have a written contract to rent. What I am saying is that the OP stated "the rent is ridiculously cheap" so if they raise the issue about EPC and the landlord goes ahead and commisions one, where it may well say not possible to achieve correct band without altering the charactor of the building (or whatever the wording is) then you can bet the rent is no longer going to be ridiculously cheap and the good relationship, and possibility of buying the place is going to be at risk. Why would you risk it??

OP is asking;
1. Can OP still rent it if the EPC comes back below the current required level?
2. If the landlord needs to do major works to bring it up to standard, what are the tenants rights while this goes on?

I don't see the OP asking if the rent will increase; I'm sure he knows it will have to

Thanks everyone. So from your answers , have I got this right ...
1 - I have a contract, even if it is verbal
2. If an EPC comes back below an E, I basically have to move out, but voluntarily as I can't be evicted under a section 21. 

BUT- if I move out will I be responsible for renting and paying rent somewhere else?

As the landlady is 96 years old I don't know how long we will get to stay here and I think that's why the son isn't that bothered to sort anything out about selling the place. So I'm guessing having an EPC and selling it to us with a failed one is all too complicated 

dinosaur66

from memory but not looked it up landlord does not have to renew an epc until tennants have left  but i think he has to have one before you started 

new epc law has been delayed to 2030

maximum landlord has to spend is 10k to get it up to whatever spec 10k buys

so is going to spend more than 10k on boiler/windows/roof/insulation before he even gets to the internal walls

epc e is currently a pass when renting

i am guessing you are paying something like £400 a month in a £1000 a month area /

it is obvious the landlords have not been declaring this property ever to hmrc /local council and that is in your favour

me personally i would not mention anything whatsoever nothing good can come of it.

if i was in your situation i would put insulation boards in the loft rafters £200 depending size and if you have a loft in your flat /lag the loft / £100 /service the boiler /i get charged £45  /draught seal the windows £40 /bleed the radiatiors -£2 key pay for it and do it yourself and keep on paying a fraction of the market rate.