JAL and Finnair

kuepper

Update: I'm still awaiting a refund from Booking.com who - after telling me I should get paid within 10-15 days say they haven't received the money from JAL yet. I've not had a response to my compensation claim from Finnair yet but I just started wondering about how the period of notice of cancellation is calculated. I never received any notification of cancellation from Finnair but my JAL notification of the cancellation was at 0520 GMT on 26th November, and my cancelled flight was scheduled to depart at 0605 GMT on 9th December. I calculate that as 13 days and 45 minutes notice so less than 14 days but I wondered does 'the law' count days differently?

kuepper

Another update.  Finnair have rejected my claim for compensation for the cancelled flight Helsinki to Manchester saying I had 14 days notice but I've replied it was only 13 days and 45 minutes and sent a copy of the notification I had from Japan Airlines proving that plus Finnair never notified me of any cancellation anyway. 

However in the meantime I've discovered that my coonecting flight from Tokyo to Helsinki was also cancelled and neither Japan Airlines or 'Gotogate in partnership with Booking.con' informed me of that, they let me believe only the connecting flight from Helsinki to Manchester was cancelled. So I'm confused about the law re the compensation I might be entitled to as presumably the distance from Tokyo to Helsinki is added to the distance from Helsinki o Manchester which would take it into the highest category. However on the other hand my arrival in Manchester wasn't delayed at all as the flights I booked got me there before the cancelled flight would have done, that was because my new departure time from Tokyo was much earlier than that of the cancelled flight so I effectively lost a day's sightseeing.

These sort of circumstances don't fit neatly into what the normal cancellation -compensation criteria are so I'm confused as to my rights.

eskbanker

If both legs were cancelled and Finnair were the operating carrier, then they're obliged to compensate you for the entire end-to-end journey if notified less than 14 days in advance without offering alternative flights, as well as a full refund.

Note that:

The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/article/5

kuepper

eskbanker said:

If both legs were cancelled and Finnair were the operating carrier, then they're obliged to compensate you for the entire end-to-end journey if notified less than 14 days in advance without offering alternative flights, as well as a full refund.

Note that:

The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/article/5

That link is very useful, thank you very much - although in the last hour I've discovered Booking.con misinformed me yesterday that both flights were cancelled, it was just the 2nd leg from Helsinki to Manchester. I realise now you can't believe anything they say. So I should get compensation for that 2nd leg if Finnair eventually agree that I didn't receive 14 days notice from their codeshare partner and that I didn't get any notice (or any assistance whatsoever) from them directly

Susan1942

Excuse me butting in on this issue.  I have posted an issue where my flight to Belfast from Leeds Bradford on the 23rd of December at 12 PM  At 11;20 pm I received a text informing me that my flight was changed to 08 30 am on the 24th of December Christmas Eve. The flight was booked with BA as a reward flight back in October.  The flifhr is with Aer Lingus who use Emerald Airlines.  They were showing availability on the flight but seats costing £420 but if you carry the booking through to end when baggage was added the cost was £465  Showed that there were 3 seats available and my daughter was going to buy me a seat but I was up all night and at 82 and not in the best of health I was in no fit condition to travel.  My daughter posted on FB with a screen shot of the £420.  I have posted a more complete post about the matter but not sure whether it is and it will be picked up and moved to the corrrect forum.  So I landed in Belfast a day late and being Christmas that day was wasted plus I had accommodation booked from the 23rd  I would be grateful if anyone could advise me  Sue 

martindow

Susan1942 said:

Excuse me butting in on this issue.  I have posted an issue where my flight to Belfast from Leeds Bradford on the 23rd of December at 12 PM  At 11;20 pm I received a text informing me that my flight was changed to 08 30 am on the 24th of December Christmas Eve. The flight was booked with BA as a reward flight back in October.  The flifhr is with Aer Lingus who use Emerald Airlines.  They were showing availability on the flight but seats costing £420 but if you carry the booking through to end when baggage was added the cost was £465  Showed that there were 3 seats available and my daughter was going to buy me a seat but I was up all night and at 82 and not in the best of health I was in no fit condition to travel.  My daughter posted on FB with a screen shot of the £420.  I have posted a more complete post about the matter but not sure whether it is and it will be picked up and moved to the corrrect forum.  So I landed in Belfast a day late and being Christmas that day was wasted plus I had accommodation booked from the 23rd  I would be grateful if anyone could advise me  Sue 

Sue, probably best to stick to just the one thread

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6577530/change-of-flights-from-the-23rd-dec-to-the-24th-december

Hopefully you will get some replies there soon.

kuepper

Finnair have now got back to me and don't refer to the 14 days notice anymore but seem to think I have to contact Japan Airlines. Surely they must know Finnair are responsible as the carrier? This is what they say:

"Be kindly informed that your flights were operated by Finnair and marketed by Japan Airlines, for that reason in your booking they are under Japan Airlines code.In case of advanced schedule change it is a marketing carrier responsibility to inform customer regarding the schedule changes.Kindly contact Japan Airlines as a marketing carrier of your flights and responsible for sending notification."

eskbanker

kuepper said:

Finnair have now got back to me and don't refer to the 14 days notice anymore but seem to think I have to contact Japan Airlines. Surely they must know Finnair are responsible as the carrier? This is what they say:

"Be kindly informed that your flights were operated by Finnair and marketed by Japan Airlines, for that reason in your booking they are under Japan Airlines code.

In case of advanced schedule change it is a marketing carrier responsibility to inform customer regarding the schedule changes.

Kindly contact Japan Airlines as a marketing carrier of your flights and responsible for sending notification."

It's unclear why they're referring to an 'advance schedule change' if their flight was cancelled with no alternative offered, but yes, as above, the regulations are clear that liability for compensation, etc, rests with the operating carrier, as does the responsibility for notifying passengers.

kuepper

eskbanker said:

kuepper said:

Finnair have now got back to me and don't refer to the 14 days notice anymore but seem to think I have to contact Japan Airlines. Surely they must know Finnair are responsible as the carrier? This is what they say:

"Be kindly informed that your flights were operated by Finnair and marketed by Japan Airlines, for that reason in your booking they are under Japan Airlines code.

In case of advanced schedule change it is a marketing carrier responsibility to inform customer regarding the schedule changes.

Kindly contact Japan Airlines as a marketing carrier of your flights and responsible for sending notification."

It's unclear why they're referring to an 'advance schedule change' if their flight was cancelled with no alternative offered, but yes, as above, the regulations are clear that liability for compensation, etc, rests with the operating carrier, as does the responsibility for notifying passengers.

Yes surely they're not daft, but if they just keep giving me this waffle all I can think of is it's because they want to make me give up. I've replied and quoted Article 5 but I expect more prevarication. I won't give up but it sticks in the gullet if I end up having to pay Bott&Co £150 for getting me £350 so I'd only get £200 when I know and Finnair know I'm in the right.

Just one more annoying fact about claiming v Finnair. Every time I respond to them I go to the back of the 'customer service' queue:

"Our system operates on a chronological basis, meaning that each new reply pushes your case to the bottom of the queue. This ensures that we address inquiries in the order they are received, allowing us to provide fair and thorough assistance to all our customers".

To add to my annoyance, after 6 weeks I still haven't had a refund for the cancelled flight from Booking.con who say Japan Airlines still haven't refunded them.

kuepper

eskbanker said:

If both legs were cancelled and Finnair were the operating carrier, then they're obliged to compensate you for the entire end-to-end journey if notified less than 14 days in advance without offering alternative flights, as well as a full refund.

Note that:

The burden of proof concerning the questions as to whether and when the passenger has been informed of the cancellation of the flight shall rest with the operating air carrier

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/article/5

I've quoted this to them ad nauseum and told them that it doesn't make any difference when the flight was cancelled, what matters is that Finnair the operating carrier gave me no notice of the cancellation at all and their codeshare partner JAL gave me less than 2 weeks notice. They now say "The EU regulations refers to cases when the flight cancelation is less than two weeks before departure date. The flight was canceled more than two weeks and in such cases marketing carrier is responsible for the notification. Kindly contact Japan Airlines as a marketing carrier."

It looks like I'll have to use Bott & Co to get anything out of Finnair.I just don't understand why they continue to deny the facts and there seems no way to escalate my case