Old Storage Heater. Releasing too fast by early morning. 1 thing changed recently

OpolE

Hi. I've posted about my energy company here before but now its specifically about 1 storage heater on my end/responsibility.

I assume they are from 1993 but there are no markings.

I noticed my storage heaters weren't turning on using the night rate (RIGHT SIDE)

I got an electrician to check.

The wall plug area connected to the night rate showed current as normal, but the storage heaters night rate switch showed no current so is broken.

The solution at the time was to go into the fuse box and swap the wire so that my anytime energy switch (LEFT SIDE) now became "night rate activating" between 12:30-7:30. 

Turning the side dial doesn't seem to do anything other than allow it to turn on when night rate is ready to feed electric.

Another thing I noticed whether correct or not. (The side I'm using does not have the little metal piece the original night rate side has)

The storage heater is basically slightly warm by mid morning.

I believe the heater should retain its full heat throughout the day with both switches or am I wrong? Is the on demand anytime switch for quick bursts?

Either way this thing is old and gets nice and warm through the night but I cant seem to regulate it and now I cannot control its rapid heat release.

There's a flap on top that I closed to retain heat loss and made no difference.

Also there's quite a bit of flashing when its heating up, like mini lightning. Seen it years before too.

Thanks if you can save me some money here because I realise how bloody expensive getting a new one is going to be.

mmmmikey

Hi, although new storage heaters are expensive, second hand ones can be bought for very little and depending on where you live and who you know can sometimes be had for free as they get replaced with newer high-heat retention ones or swapped out for central heating. I suspect that might be a better option than trying to repair what you've got - storage heaters of that vintage often have mechanical controls that are difficult to fix.

EssexHebridean

On our older ones, the heat retention (such as it was) was controlled by internal mechanical baffles linked to one dial - on ours these were on the top. Is one of your dials marked "output" by any  chance? If so, if you turn that one way, then the other, can you hear anything moving internally? 

OpolE

EssexHebridean said:

On our older ones, the heat retention (such as it was) was controlled by internal mechanical baffles linked to one dial - on ours these were on the top. Is one of your dials marked "output" by any  chance? If so, if you turn that one way, then the other, can you hear anything moving internally? 

All you get is a click from turning the dials on the side. No symbols or levels anywhere. Guess it had an ancient manual but as its got no name/markings id literally need someone in here who knows what it is like its their backhand

It looks like this from above.

OpolE

EssexHebridean said:

On our older ones, the heat retention (such as it was) was controlled by internal mechanical baffles linked to one dial - on ours these were on the top. Is one of your dials marked "output" by any  chance? If so, if you turn that one way, then the other, can you hear anything moving internally? 

Also I imagine you are getting at the idea of changing the dials both sides visa verca to see if they are affecting each other. I'm pretty sure I already tried that but it would take 4 nights of scenarios to check that unless it works first time.

I thought they had their own dedicated wire as per the pic so not working on the right anyway

Scot_39

If the heater takes a boost charge from the 24/7 socket it is likely much lower powered (*)

And if you swap internally too you'll lose anything like fans or thermostat driven air vent control.


My old output vent control  is not thermostatic but timer delay from last off peak charge.  It doesn't play well with my e10 windows so don't use.


(*) Any boost element based on Dimplex and Elnur hhr ratios Maybe third to quarter rated - c1kW on larger models - deliberately to avoid peak electric use costs - but may vary depending on model.

So might struggle to take anywhere near enough charge even in 7 hrs if your used to taking a lot of power to charge to moderare to high levels.

.

EssexHebridean

OpolE said:

EssexHebridean said:

On our older ones, the heat retention (such as it was) was controlled by internal mechanical baffles linked to one dial - on ours these were on the top. Is one of your dials marked "output" by any  chance? If so, if you turn that one way, then the other, can you hear anything moving internally? 

Also I imagine you are getting at the idea of changing the dials both sides visa verca to see if they are affecting each other. I'm pretty sure I already tried that but it would take 4 nights of scenarios to check that unless it works first time.

I thought they had their own dedicated wire as per the pic so not working on the right anyway

No - it's as simple as the fact that our "old style" storage heaters had exactly that mechanical baffle system - and when we turned the relevant dial sharply one way then back again (the one controlling the output) you could hear a metallic rattle and thud as the baffles opened and closed - it was very clear, so if yours had the same system, and it was still working, I'd expect similar! 

Scrounger

I have an idea of what's happened.

I've seen these heaters before and I believe they are a combined storage heater and a 'boost' convector heater.  That's why there are two supplies - one is a permanent live (boost) and the other is off-peak (storage heater).
The two knobs are for heat settings - one for the storage heater 'input', the other is the thermostat for the convector heater.
If there is a slider control (top rear?) that is the 'output' setting for the storage heater and controls a mechanical flap.

From what you say, it sounds like your electrician has swapped over the supplies and so the boost heater is now wired to the off-peak supply and operating during the off-peak period giving plenty of instantaneous heat (but no storage) and the storage heater is not operating at all (due to the original fault - "broken switch" you say?).

I repaired one of these a few years ago for a relative, let us know if you need any further advice.


Scrounger

OpolE

Scrounger said:

If there a slider control (top rear?) that is the 'output' setting for the storage heater and controls a mechanical flap.

That slider only opens a flap in pic here.

There is no current found going through the area of the original off peak switch so assumed broken. I see what you say about the permanent boost and why it is likely the reason I am not storing for the day.

I guess its either a crappy expensive fix or a new more modern 2nd hand one from ebay/gumtree/facebook or a brand new one installed by a company

Scrounger

What about the "broken switch" you mentioned that was diagnosed by your electrician?

And if it is broken, why not simply replace it instead of altering the wiring?

The heater itself is not particularly complicated electrically.  Best way to fault find is to isolate from the mains and then trace the wiring by taking resistance measurements with a multimeter.

My relative's storage heater was completely inoperative - traced to a fractured wire behind one of the side panels.


Scrounger

Gerry1

The flap was a relatively crude attempt to stabilise the heat output.  When the bricks were red hot it was kept closed by a bi-metallic strip.

The flap slowly opened as the bricks cooled down during the day.

The Heat Output control could be used as a mechanical override to keep the flap shut.

The best way to operate old-style NSHs is to close the flap at bedtime and to open it in the late afternoon or evening if it starts to feel chilly.

If it still feels chilly in the late evening, turn the Heat Input control up a bit so that more stored heat will be available the next day.

It sounds like this model also has a built in convector, but as that will use expensive daytime electricity it's very much a last resort for limited use if there's an unexpected cold snap or it's been turned down or off because you've been away.