Pins and TRVs?

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

Baxi Solo 3 PF - wall mounted powerd flue.

I did get a heating guy for an hour when he was cut off from his job due to the local big farming show. He tested the boiler, pump, accuator and reset the pump to only run on for 4mins instead of the 15 so I got some peace and quiet.

His summary was nothing wrong - must be a too tight pipe clip in the loft...........................but it ran fine for 3yrs so can't see a clip suddenly becoming too tight.

The problem started when I had new hot water cylinder and new TRVs, guy came in hurry before going home and just screwed them on quick.

I'm just using the quick set 1hr button in the mornings. One thing I can do is put it on timer and see when the pump starts to get noisy.

It's very mild here so the rads aren't heating.

Found Sillicone spray in local shop so I'll do that when I'm feeling better.

Won't be doing much today. I've picked up a tummy bug - first time in 20yrs!

Tummy bug :-(

That's a pretty basic boiler, as I'm sure you know, and has - afaIk - a fixed output, set by the temp control on the front. Step one would be to have this set as low as you can, whilst still delivering good CH and DHW temps.

What type of motorised valves do you have, to divert the boiler water to the rads and the hot cylinder? Is there one or two?

That boiler needs a decent by-pass to allow the water to circulate after most of the rads have shut their TRVs off. The en-suite and hall rads are presumably acting as the by-pass - they don't have TRVs on them? - but they may not be large enough to dispel the heat, or open enough to provide enough flow, to act as proper by-passes, so the boiler is 'overheating' instead - but presumably not enough to trip the overheat 'stat, which would light up the warning light on the display. You haven't seen that come on?

This is all guesswork, of course.

Or possibly the temp control 'stat in the boiler isn't working, and it's outputting at pretty much max temp even if it's dialled down. What position do you have it on? And what happens if you turn it down by, say, half - do you notice any change in your rads and DHW?

twopenny

Oh it's all guess work ThisIsWeird So all ideas welcome.

Don't know about valves. I only know that the boiler to loft is one pipe, it goes to the pump I guess which is in the centre of the bungalow in the airing cupboard and is pumped from there and then it splays from a point to seperate pipes to each rad like fingers on a hand.

It would help if I could still get into the loft.

Yes, last winter it did go into overheat and shut off. That's when I posted followed by the guy tested everything.

Yes, ensuite tiny with small rad. It's not done the too hot before. The hall and kitchen have. The scalding seems to come an hour or half an hour before shutting off. The pump also starts to  get noisy as though it's ramping up.

No clunky noises when I use the quick button for one hour or two.

I could turn down the boiler. I need to look up the instructions. I've forgotten. Will look later and see what it's set at.

My one saving grace in this is that if alls working as it should the pump runs quiet so it has the ability to work properly. Something is interfering.

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

Oh it's all guess work ThisIsWeird So all ideas welcome.

Don't know about valves. I only know that the boiler to loft is one pipe, it goes to the pump I guess which is in the centre of the bungalow in the airing cupboard and is pumped from there and then it splays from a point to seperate pipes to each rad like fingers on a hand.

It would help if I could still get into the loft.

Yes, last winter it did go into overheat and shut off. That's when I posted followed by the guy tested everything.

Yes, ensuite tiny with small rad. It's not done the too hot before. The hall and kitchen have. The scalding seems to come an hour or half an hour before shutting off. The pump also starts to  get noisy as though it's ramping up.

No clunky noises when I use the quick button for one hour or two.

I could turn down the boiler. I need to look up the instructions. I've forgotten. Will look later and see what it's set at.

My one saving grace in this is that if alls working as it should the pump runs quiet so it has the ability to work properly. Something is interfering.

Is the pump in the loft, or in the airing cupboard? Could you have a look in the latter, and see if there are wee metal boxes on the pipes, especially after the pump? Take photos, please.

The boiler has only one control, I understand - a turnable knob. That turns it on and off, and selects the desired output water temp. Have a gander, and see what it's currently at, please.

We don't know what the actual noise is like, of course, so could you use your extensive vocab to fully describe it, please, timings and everything? :-)

twopenny

The pump is in the airing cupboard.

Only box on the pipe is the actuator (new)

I paddled out to the boiler (garage) and the control was set at 3. Mid way. The guy who spent time said he'd turned it up and if I wished I could turn it down. I've turned it down to 2.5. Hope it's still as cosy.

I didn't have to turn the knob back to 0 and then back to the number  did I?

So that is the water temperature going through the system? How will that affect the radiators with trvs set at 3 out of 6 please?

For the noise, use a knuckle to gently knock on some wood. This occours after a couple of hours. Not too loud but if you're inside it gets to you. Also a tick tick ticking noise. Was originally in the wall by the Actuator which is why I got a new one. Then it was in the wall by the kitchen radiator on the TRV side. Now it's either in the kitchen ceiling above the sink/outside wall or the living room ceiling on same side. It's livable with (just) but the knocking is also heard in the garage towards the boiler.

To me it sounds like a valve not working and the water stuttering on it's return - but I've had a year or more to think/worry about this and I may be over dramatising about what I think is going on.

I've had the TRVs off on the 3 offending radiators (thank you for the instructions) there was dust and bits in there from the filling and sanding I've done. Cleaned up. I didn't spray with silicone spray as It's difficult to limit the spray.

Boiler now set at 2.5

Pump middle pipe to 3 way below. Actuator on different pipe.

Drayton RT212

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

The pump is in the airing cupboard.

Only box on the pipe is the actuator (new)

I paddled out to the boiler (garage) and the control was set at 3. Mid way. The guy who spent time said he'd turned it up and if I wished I could turn it down. I've turned it down to 2.5. Hope it's still as cosy.

I didn't have to turn the knob back to 0 and then back to the number  did I?

So that is the water temperature going through the system? How will that affect the radiators with trvs set at 3 out of 6 please?

For the noise, use a knuckle to gently knock on some wood. This occours after a couple of hours. Not too loud but if you're inside it gets to you. Also a tick tick ticking noise. Was originally in the wall by the Actuator which is why I got a new one. Then it was in the wall by the kitchen radiator on the TRV side. Now it's either in the kitchen ceiling above the sink/outside wall or the living room ceiling on same side. It's livable with (just) but the knocking is also heard in the garage towards the boiler.

To me it sounds like a valve not working and the water stuttering on it's return - but I've had a year or more to think/worry about this and I may be over dramatising about what I think is going on.

I've had the TRVs off on the 3 offending radiators (thank you for the instructions) there was dust and bits in there from the filling and sanding I've done. Cleaned up. I didn't spray with silicone spray as It's difficult to limit the spray.

Boiler now set at 2.5

Pump middle pipe to 3 way below. Actuator on different pipe.

Drayton RT212

Ok, 3 out of 6 wasn't that high, so nothing amiss there.
Turning it down to 2.5 should deliver slightly cooler water from the boiler, so monitor that the rads still heat up adequately, and your DHW is ditto. Please report back on this.
No, you only need to turn it off and on again if it needs resetting, say the 'overheat' light comes on.
The (presumably) lower water temp won't affect the TRV settings, as these just represent the room air temp. Eg, 3 is around 19o.
If the boiler temp is turned down too far, tho', then it'll mean your rads won't become hot enough to heat your rooms. It'll certainly mean it'll take longer to get to temp, but provided it still does so comfortably, then the cooler the better (regardless of whether the boiler is a condensing type).
Yes, your actuator is a 3-port diverter, and that apparently suits your boiler more than two 2-porters, as it allows water circulation regardless of position, so that's one fault theory panned :-(
Your TRVs are bi-directional, so another possibility gorn...
Bottom line, I've no idea :-)

twopenny

Thanks for your time and knowledge ThisIsWeird

It is a mystery but at least I know a lot more about the system and feel more confident about it.

Also that all the bits are right.

Turning it down didn't get rid of the noise which came last night but not quite so bad. Mind it's been relatively mild and good thermal in the bungalow.

Yup, turning the boiler up to 3 again maybe, because that was cosy. But at least I know how to change it as necessary according to the weather.

My posting is slow because this is the only site that I can't get on my tablet since it's been updated last and have to log into the computer.

Life these days is full of little mysteries

ThisIsWeird

Make sure you are cosy - don't hesitate to turn the boiler back up if your house doesn't warm up quickly enough, or the DHW ain't hot enough.

Your boiler isn't a condensing type (I don't think), so turning the flow temp down doesn't really help with energy savings, but in general the cooler the boiler the longer it'll last. But not at the expense of being cold!

I was really wondering if that control was working properly, but if you have noticed it cooler since turning it down, then chances are it is. If it wasn't working properly - if it still provided equally piping-hot radiators when turned down further - then that would point to a possible cause, the 'stat allowing the water to become too hot.

You mentioned before that the wee rads become 'scalding' after the heating has been on for a good while, and that makes sense as the other rads will be closing off due to their TRVs. But if the wee rads still become 'scalding' - the same temp as before - if the boiler is turned down to, say, 2, then that could point to an issue.

twopenny

"so turning the flow temp down doesn't really help with energy savings" - oddly the newer boilers seem to cost more to run than my big  old boiler from the 70's.

But yes, I'll try and be cosy. The noise, when you don't know what it is is twice as annoying.

I do know that it can run happily and silent so when it changes and I don't know why I get exasperated.

Pre this house I had a noise in the pipes, heating guy said it's not a problem, would last 10yrs more and then the water tank broke at 11pm, awake overnight mopping as the house was for sale. Went through 2 lots of the artic blast with no heating, lost sale and had to redecorate for the second time. 

So I have previous with noises from pipes.

I have fan heaters in the bathrooms and electric fires (only thing for a plasterboard house) and never got rid of the heaters I bought then. Always said I was never going to be that cold again.............

So I'll up the temp a tad. Stop feeling radiators and turn the telly up

FreeBear

twopenny said: "so turning the flow temp down doesn't really help with energy savings" - oddly the newer boilers seem to cost more to run than my big  old boiler from the 70's.

Had an old Baxi back boiler that predates yours by quite a few years. Recently replaced with a modern condensing combi. Whilst my gas consumption hasn't dropped by much, I'm finding it much easier to keep the place warm and at a comfortable temperature (although some of that will be down to various thermal upgrades).

If your boiler has a pilot light burning 24/7, that is costing you some 2kWh every year - Energy that would be more effectively used to heat the house. Running at a lower flow temperature with a modern condensing boiler would mean that you would be running at a higher efficiency (90% or more up from ~70%). But radiators need to be sized appropriately to make the best of low flow temperatures. A new boiler can adjust the amount of heat produced to match actual demand, so wouldn't be running flat out all the time. So less noise...

However, the bottom line savings on bills, especially if you are already a low user is not that high. Having spent ~£2500 on a new boiler (and more for radiators & pipework), I might save £30 a year based on current prices. Not going to see a return on investment in my lifetime. However, the intangible benefits of having better control over heating, a system that works efficiently and effectively, and (near) instant hot water make up for it.

ThisIsWeird

I think this Baxi has spark ignition.

Bottom line, 2'penny, is that you nurse it along until you really need to replace it