Pins and TRVs?

twopenny

So I've had problems for over a year of horrible noises as water returns to the boiler after the heating being on over 2hrs. Several heating guys have come round quickly to have a look, one for an hour but with no resoloution.

I have a health problem so need the heating working.

Now I think I may have the answer.

2 radiators are overheating after the heating has been on for a time. The pump is getting louder and the noises on return to the boiler.

Turn the over heated rads off and the all is quiet.

System is 24yrs old but only used for 9yrs with a 15yr gap when it wasn't used. Flushed, new alternator and TVR knobs.

From reading on here and YT I think the pins in the TVRs may be sticking and not keeping the temperature.

Having waited 2 afternoons for the heating guy with no show I thought it might be worth taking off the knobs and lubricating the pins. If that doesn't work it's new bits.

But I lack confidence never having done anything like this before.

By unscrewing the nut below the TRV and removing the trv knob can anything go horribily wrong?

I have to be very gentle if I tap or wriggle the pin?

I saw silicone gel on here and don't have that but read that wd40 may do it?

Feel quite excited as if it's a simple fix it will be life changing, a quiet pump means I can have the heating come on before I get up and relax in the evenings without horrible noises which drives me nuts.

FreeBear

twopenny said: By unscrewing the nut below the TRV and removing the trv knob can anything go horribily wrong?

I have to be very gentle if I tap or wriggle the pin?

I saw silicone gel on here and don't have that but read that wd40 may do it?

Twist the TRV to the max setting (either 5 or 6), and unscrew the threaded collar. Nothing will ping out and disappear, so quite save to do. If you press or tap the pin, just make sure any/all force is downwards.

WD40 is probably not a good idea as it contains mineral spirits which can cause some types of O-rings to swell and degrade. A silicone or graphite spray is likely to be safer, and only the tiniest of squirts. Or a very small drop of 3-in-1 oil.

twopenny

Ok glad I asked now. Thanks Freebear.

I have 3 in 1, I'll have a look for silicone spray while out for a walk - it's stopped raining.

I may leave the pin alone for a first go as it works fine for the first 2hrs and see if just lubricating helps.

Can you twist the pin gently? Just something to ease it?

I do have a history of taking off caps on strimmer and a lock and a spring shooting out and not knowing how to get it back. Much laughter at my expense when I took it to the shop for help so probably why I'm nervous. Also don't want to be without heating.  

Might be worth a try because getting anyone to call for small jobs is impossible.

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

So I've had problems for over a year of horrible noises as water returns to the boiler after the heating being on over 2hrs. Several heating guys have come round quickly to have a look, one for an hour but with no resoloution.

I have a health problem so need the heating working.

Now I think I may have the answer.

2 radiators are overheating after the heating has been on for a time. The pump is getting louder and the noises on return to the boiler.

Turn the over heated rads off and the all is quiet.

System is 24yrs old but only used for 9yrs with a 15yr gap when it wasn't used. Flushed, new alternator and TVR knobs.

From reading on here and YT I think the pins in the TVRs may be sticking and not keeping the temperature.

Having waited 2 afternoons for the heating guy with no show I thought it might be worth taking off the knobs and lubricating the pins. If that doesn't work it's new bits.

But I lack confidence never having done anything like this before.

By unscrewing the nut below the TRV and removing the trv knob can anything go horribily wrong?

I have to be very gentle if I tap or wriggle the pin?

I saw silicone gel on here and don't have that but read that wd40 may do it?

Feel quite excited as if it's a simple fix it will be life changing, a quiet pump means I can have the heating come on before I get up and relax in the evenings without horrible noises which drives me nuts.

Not actually sure what the issue is here, 2'penny.

Is it 'just' noise? Or are you not getting your room warm enough?

What do you mean by 'two rads are overheating'? They don't shut off as they should? They have TRVs, yes? What are they set to, and what temp is the room? When you turn them down, do the rads not shut off?

If you post some pics of your TRVs, we can advise further, but it'll likely be as FreeBear say, and no risk of pinging springs or gushing waster.

twopenny

I can post photos tonight - all my stuff is old school -

The bungalow is all plaster board. The noise comes from the ceiling over the living room/kitchen to the boiler. It starts after 2 or 3hrs.

The boiler begins repeatedly firing

All boiler/pump and main parts have been tested and found fine.

All radiators work perfectly and then start after some hours to overheat to scalding even when on 3 (medium to low) and the noise in the ceiling starts en route to boiler, the pump is noisy. I have to turn off the heating to stay sane.

I posted last year and followed - turn all rads to high then normal. To low and normal. Bled etc etc. to no effect.

This cold snap I turned the offending rads down to off and once cooled the noise stopped, the pump returned to quiet.

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

I can post photos tonight - all my stuff is old school -

The bungalow is all plaster board. The noise comes from the ceiling over the living room/kitchen to the boiler. It starts after 2 or 3hrs.

The boiler begins repeatedly firing

All boiler/pump and main parts have been tested and found fine.

All radiators work perfectly and then start after some hours to overheat to scalding even when on 3 (medium to low) and the noise in the ceiling starts en route to boiler, the pump is noisy. I have to turn off the heating to stay sane.

I posted last year and followed - turn all rads to high then normal. To low and normal. Bled etc etc. to no effect.

This cold snap I turned the offending rads down to off and once cooled the noise stopped, the pump returned to quiet.

Make and model of boiler?

The rads becoming 'scalding' may, or may not, be an issue. It all depends on the setting of the TRV, and the temp of the room. A rad will become, and continue to be, 'scalding' provided it is still trying to meet demand. It'll only stop being scalding when the TRV-set room temp has been reached, and it then shuts off.

So, what are these TRVs set to, and what are the room temps?

Albermarle

Something a bit odd going on.

The radiators can only heat up as hot as the temperature of the hot water being pumped around the system. This is the boiler flow temperature that is set by a dial on the front of the boiler.
Normally you would expect the radiators to reach top temperature after about 20 mins, but not to get any hotter after that even with the TRV fully open ( although the room will get warmer of course)

OP - Are you sure these two radiators really get any hotter after about say the first 30 mins ?
What is the boiler flow temperature set at ?

FreeBear

twopenny said: Can you twist the pin gently? Just something to ease it?

I'd advise against trying to twist the pins with pliers of mole grips - You run the risk of marking the pin which could chew up the seals.

Some people will have smooth jaw pliers (very rarely, a pair with copper or brass jaws) - These would be less likely to mark the pin.

twopenny

I need the heating on all day or at least all evening depending on winter temps.

Trvs on 3 in all rooms, 4 in sitting room.

Heating works fine with radiators just warm once the rooms have heated.

After 4 or 5hrs it starts quiet ticking in loft pipes that increases to a knocking.

Then the en suit (tiny) rad gets scalding and the hall one.

Pump starts to get noisy too.

If I turn the rads off for half an hour they go cold, then turn up to 3 again and everything works quietly.

For the whole long story with photos see 2023......

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6419881/heating-noises-from-pipes-increasing/p1

Ignore fog horn noise from wall. Turned out to be neighbours plumbing. We are linked by a garage so goodness knows why I got foghorns in my living room wall

ThisIsWeird

twopenny said:

I need the heating on all day or at least all evening depending on winter temps.

Trvs on 3 in all rooms, 4 in sitting room.

Heating works fine with radiators just warm once the rooms have heated.

After 4 or 5hrs it starts quiet ticking in loft pipes that increases to a knocking.

Then the en suit (tiny) rad gets scalding and the hall one.

Pump starts to get noisy too.

If I turn the rads off for half an hour they go cold, then turn up to 3 again and everything works quietly.

For the whole long story with photos see 2023......

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6419881/heating-noises-from-pipes-increasing/p1

Ignore fog horn noise from wall. Turned out to be neighbours plumbing. We are linked by a garage so goodness knows why I got foghorns in my living room wall

Ah, I remember.
It sounds as tho' you're boiler isn't coping with the rads shutting off - the boiler keeps chugging on.
Where is the room stat located?
And, make and model of boiler?
The en suite rad - does that have a TRV? What about the hall one?

twopenny

Baxi Solo 3 PF - wall mounted powerd flue.

I did get a heating guy for an hour when he was cut off from his job due to the local big farming show. He tested the boiler, pump, accuator and reset the pump to only run on for 4mins instead of the 15 so I got some peace and quiet.

His summary was nothing wrong - must be a too tight pipe clip in the loft...........................but it ran fine for 3yrs so can't see a clip suddenly becoming too tight.

The problem started when I had new hot water cylinder and new TRVs, guy came in hurry before going home and just screwed them on quick.

I'm just using the quick set 1hr button in the mornings. One thing I can do is put it on timer and see when the pump starts to get noisy.

It's very mild here so the rads aren't heating.

Found Sillicone spray in local shop so I'll do that when I'm feeling better.

Won't be doing much today. I've picked up a tummy bug - first time in 20yrs!