Renting - Council Tax dispute

Curls2208

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone can advise on the following. I have asked in other places and even been to Citizens advice bureau but cannot find solid confirmation or advice. I'll try to summarise in bullet points.

- I rent a part of a house that is solely my own, however it is joined internally by it's own door. And for years has been perceived as part of the main house, for council tax purposes and everything else.
- My rent states all bills are included subject to fair usage. It does not mention council tax specifically in this.
-When I moved in I received a letter from the council asking for confirmation of who lives here. I replied to this with my details.
- You can probably see where this is going - this letter set off a chain of unfortunate events with the council that has really annoyed my landlady (and myself!) which basically means the council has decided to set up my property as a separate property for council tax, in theory splitting the house into two.
- My landlady isn't particularly warm, she keeps saying that I'll have to pay this and all building insurance blahdahblahdahblahdah.
-In my opinion this is NOT my fault, and it's her fault for not having reported this to the council years ago. 
-I signed up for this property for all bills included, and I do not plan on paying the council tax whilst this tenancy is valid (until May) and plan to fight the landlady with this.....as long as I am legally doing the right thing, I don't want to get in trouble with the council over it.
-added complication of landlady being in same building-or my next door neighbour. 
-she been renting the apartment 15 years before me, and this has only arrived now. I'm unsure how no other tenant has managed to have this happen to them

I think that summarises everything enough. If anyone is in the knowhow I'd love to hear your thoughts, I'd happily PM you snippets of the tenancy agreement if that assists in things.

I will definitely move out when contract expires in May. I'm hoping that the council are slow to come and do the assessing of the flat and what not, at least after Christmas, as the closer to may it is, the more likely i'll be able to fight this away from actually being in her property and suffering for it!

anselld

It is not actually the Council who make the banding assessment it is the VOA.  Has it actually been separately assessed?  (Look it up on the CT banding listings). Have you received a Council Tax bill?
Once it is assessed, liability can be backdated so there is no particular advantage to you in delay.  However the VOA are VERY slow.
If it is assessed separately then you will become liable as far as the Council is concerned regardless of your tenancy wording.  So yes you would obviously be in trouble if you don’t pay.  It would be a separate matter to recover the cost from the Landlord depending on the precise wording of the agreement.

Baldytyke88

Curls2208 said:

Hello everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone can advise on the following. I have asked in other places and even been to Citizens advice bureau but cannot find solid confirmation or advice. I'll try to summarise in bullet points.

- I rent a part of a house that is solely my own, however it is joined internally by it's own door. And for years has been perceived as part of the main house, for council tax purposes and everything else.
- My rent states all bills are included subject to fair usage. It does not mention council tax specifically in this.
-When I moved in I received a letter from the council asking for confirmation of who lives here. I replied to this with my details.
- You can probably see where this is going - this letter set off a chain of unfortunate events with the council that has really annoyed my landlady (and myself!) which basically means the council has decided to set up my property as a separate property for council tax, in theory splitting the house into two.
- My landlady isn't particularly warm, she keeps saying that I'll have to pay this and all building insurance blahdahblahdahblahdah.

So your apartment is totally separate, so it should have its own council tax?

Your landlady does not pay your income tax, nor should she pay your council tax. Its sounds like your tenancy is not valid, is it a tenancy as lodger or tenant?

Curls2208

I am as a tenant on the agreement yes, not as a lodger. 

The apartment is separate but only through respect so to speak, we have an adjoining door which we don't use but in theory(and probably what the landlady has used as a loophole all these years) I could walk into her place internally, and them into mine, which of course we don't do.

Interesting to hear that the VOA are very slow, they do need to do an assessment which will likely be backdated to me then. Probably months after I move out. 

I've always paid council tax on other properties, so that is why I jumped at this property when i was told all bills included, including council tax, which i specifically asked. I feel a little hard done by and wonder if the tenancy agreement is even valid and has already been broken by her. Perhaps chatting to the estate agents who set it up my be a port of call too.

housebuyer143

Do you have your own front door or are you accessing it through the internal door? 

Ayr_Rage

Why didn't you speak to your landlady when the council tax form arrived?

Sounds like you have dug both of you a very big hole.

As you have put your name on the form and if they decide you are liable then it's you they'll come after for payment.

Curls2208

Hah you sound just like my landlady, this wasn't my fault. At absolute best it could be classed as an honest mistake. But in my eyes if the council haven't been informed correctly by my landlady all these years of how the property should have been legally taxed, then that's on them.

I replied to a letter from the council asking if I lived in the property, and told them yes I do, a standard procedure letter I've seen in all other houses I've moved into. It didn't seem worth bothering the landlady with something so trivial.

Yes I have my own door, it was probably at one point used as a side door or back entrance to the main house .

Ok thanks for the advice so far guys, it's really appreciated.

housebuyer143

Curls2208 said:

Hah you sound just like my landlady, this wasn't my fault. At absolute best it could be classed as an honest mistake. But in my eyes if the council haven't been informed correctly by my landlady all these years of how the property should have been legally taxed, then that's on them.

I replied to a letter from the council asking if I lived in the property, and told them yes I do, a standard procedure letter I've seen in all other houses I've moved into. It didn't seem worth bothering the landlady with something so trivial.

Yes I have my own door, it was probably at one point used as a side door or back entrance to the main house .

Ok thanks for the advice so far guys, it's really appreciated.

It's not your fault, you were not to know that the landlord hadn't declared the property to the council, or even that she had to. If it was such a potential issue the landlord should have outrightly told you not to reply to the council if a letter comes without speaking with her. 
I imagine then that she probably wasn't 100% aware that it was taxable. 

All bills included says to me it's her liability. If a bill comes from the council, send in your tenancy agreement and see if they shift the account name. Be prepared to move out though if you do that - your landlord will be livid.

FlorayG

Looks like two separate problems; council tax is due ( and probably always has been) on your part of the property and you, as the inhabitant, are responsible. Although bear in mind you get 25% single person discount and if your landlady is on her own she is also eligible for this.
Second problem is your tenancy agreement with the landlady. if it says 'all bills' then I would expect council tax to be included.
The problem is that the council will chase YOU for non-payment, not her, regardless of how you get on with agreeing the terms of the tenancy

400ixl

Doesn't really matter who's fault it is. Your rental sounds like it meets all of the requirements to be declared an annexe suitable for its own council tax banding.

You have declared your self the resident to the council and the person they would bill. Not paying a council bill can have big consequences quickly, so best not to be not having someone paying it.

By all means have the debate with your land lady, but ensure one of you is paying it worry about any reimbursement later once you agree who it is.

anselld

housebuyer143 said:

Curls2208 said:

Hah you sound just like my landlady, this wasn't my fault. At absolute best it could be classed as an honest mistake. But in my eyes if the council haven't been informed correctly by my landlady all these years of how the property should have been legally taxed, then that's on them.

I replied to a letter from the council asking if I lived in the property, and told them yes I do, a standard procedure letter I've seen in all other houses I've moved into. It didn't seem worth bothering the landlady with something so trivial.

Yes I have my own door, it was probably at one point used as a side door or back entrance to the main house .

Ok thanks for the advice so far guys, it's really appreciated.

If a bill comes from the council, send in your tenancy agreement and see if they shift the account name.

Pointless.  The tenancy agreement has absolutely no bearing on Council Tax liability as far as the Council is concerned.  The dispute is between the OP and the Landlady.