Renting - Council Tax dispute

Curls2208

Yeah I had a feeling this would be the outcome of advice, but I've got a few friends who absolutely insist I shouldn't be paying it....and my thought process is like....hmmmm that could land me in trouble. 
I'm willing to stand up for myself with the landlady, but I doubt I'd have much battle against the council themselves!

elsien

Absolutely no idea why she’s saying you should be paying buildings insurance though.
It’s her property, she’s the landlady,  that one is definitely her responsibility.

FlorayG

elsien said:

Absolutely no idea why she’s saying you should be paying buildings insurance though.
It’s her property, she’s the landlady,  that one is definitely her responsibility.

Yes that's correct - OP only needs content insurance
OP is the landlady claiming single person discount on her CT? Maybe you could agree between you that you pay the CT for your property LESS the discount she gets on hers now you don't officially live with her
Also, look on the bright side - now it's officially a separate dwelling your tenancy is much more secure than when it was considered part of the landlady's house

Baldytyke88

FlorayG said:

Yes that's correct - OP only needs content insurance
OP is the landlady claiming single person discount on her CT? Maybe you could agree between you that you pay the CT for your property LESS the discount she gets on hers now you don't officially live with her
Also, look on the bright side - now it's officially a separate dwelling your tenancy is much more secure than when it was considered part of the landlady's house

It's likely that the OPs house does not comply with building regulations to get its own council tax, maybe a HMO?

FlorayG

Baldytyke88 said:

FlorayG said:

Yes that's correct - OP only needs content insurance
OP is the landlady claiming single person discount on her CT? Maybe you could agree between you that you pay the CT for your property LESS the discount she gets on hers now you don't officially live with her
Also, look on the bright side - now it's officially a separate dwelling your tenancy is much more secure than when it was considered part of the landlady's house

It's likely that the OPs house does not comply with building regulations to get its own council tax, maybe a HMO?

If so that's the landlady's problem, not the OP's

Bookworm105

Curls2208 said:

I am as a tenant on the agreement yes, not as a lodger. 

The apartment is separate but only through respect so to speak, we have an adjoining door which we don't use but in theory(and probably what the landlady has used as a loophole all these years) I could walk into her place internally, and them into mine, which of course we don't do.

Interesting to hear that the VOA are very slow, they do need to do an assessment which will likely be backdated to me then. Probably months after I move out. 

I've always paid council tax on other properties, so that is why I jumped at this property when i was told all bills included, including council tax, which i specifically asked. I feel a little hard done by and wonder if the tenancy agreement is even valid and has already been broken by her. Perhaps chatting to the estate agents who set it up my be a port of call too.

the bottom line is it appears you occupy a self contained dwelling - ie one that enables you to bathe and cook without you needing to use facilities the other side of the connecting door.

on that basis your LL has been committing tax fraud for 15 years so unsurprising she is annoyed with you.

that said, legal liability for council tax follows a strict order ("Hierarchy of Liability") and a resident occupant is always first, so if you receive a council tax bill in your own name because your dwelling has now been recognised as a (council tax) "annex" then you MUST pay that bill or the council will prosecute you personally for non payment. 

as for backdating then obviously you are only liable to whichever comes first. the effective date on which the council tax liability is determined to commence from, or, the date your tenancy commenced if that is after the liability date. It would be up to the council whether they chase the debt prior to your tenancy starting, legally they can, but pragmatically it may not be cost effective for them to do so. 

also as others have identified, as you are a legal tenant then you may have grounds for taking legal action action against your own landlady (not the council!) if (big if) your tenancy agreement explicitly states "all bills included".

pinkshoes

Was the property you live in part of the main house at some point? Or was it a separately built annex? 

As you presumably have your own entrance then this is a completely separate dwelling that is liable for its own council tax. 

If the house was one entity originally and a part has been separated off, then your LL is no doubt still trying to treat it as one property and hence paying the original council tax for it, thinking that it also covers your area. But this would only work if you were a lodger, didn't have your own entrance, and had shared areas in the house. 

I can see why the LL is !!!!!! off, albeit not your fault. Are you surely not on HER council tax bill though as part of the main dwelling?

FlorayG

Bookworm105 said:

Curls2208 said:

I am as a tenant on the agreement yes, not as a lodger. 

The apartment is separate but only through respect so to speak, we have an adjoining door which we don't use but in theory(and probably what the landlady has used as a loophole all these years) I could walk into her place internally, and them into mine, which of course we don't do.

Interesting to hear that the VOA are very slow, they do need to do an assessment which will likely be backdated to me then. Probably months after I move out. 

I've always paid council tax on other properties, so that is why I jumped at this property when i was told all bills included, including council tax, which i specifically asked. I feel a little hard done by and wonder if the tenancy agreement is even valid and has already been broken by her. Perhaps chatting to the estate agents who set it up my be a port of call too.

on that basis your LL has been committing tax fraud for 15 years so unsurprising she is annoyed with you.

I love British irony. This actually made me laugh out loud...but then, I'm not the person in this mess. Best of luck OP

FlorayG

There is an option you might consider - pay the council tax and deduct that amount from the rent. I think a court would find in your favour if your tenancy specifically says 'all bills'. Also your landlady could be in BIG trouble and expense  over this (15 years back CT and 20% tax on the rent possibly? Did you pay a deposit and is this in a protected scheme?)), so might be very willing to negotiate with you to not have things escalate...obviously this is only a possibility, you know the details better and whether or not it could be a solution.

Curls2208

Most of you have got this nailed on, they'd always been paying for the 'lodger' as part of their main tax and that was how they got around it. I come along all innocent and with experience of renting in the past and see a letter from the council as no bid deal....well turns out it was. She's got her family there, so no, it's not single lodgings for her now. 
I can emphasis with the fact she's !!!!!! off with the situation but at the end of the day, she has multiple houses in a posh area down south and is a rich landlady, I don't have that much sympathy for her sob story's but yes, so this forum, some of my friends and Citizens advice bureau just say pay the council tax bill.

In reality that really is the only option. She's a fault finder and will likely try to get all of my deposit when i leave for general wear and tear, so that's maybe where i put up my fight, with the deposit protection scheme, anyway...i guess that's future me's problem. I'll move out at the end of the 12 months and find somewhere a bit cheaper with a landperson who's doing everything legit.