King George Hospital, Goodmayes

andrewmccarthy

Hi,

first of all, id like to thank the forum and its participants for the useful information I have been able to digest in relation to a recent parking charge notice I received. I now need some further help as the case has gone further without a successful appeal than I thought it would have done. Here's the background:

The "driver" of the vehicle in question took the passenger to a regular (every 3 months) hospital appointment at King George Hospital in Goodmayes, Ilford. The car park is one you pay on exit, and on this occasion, the driver genuinely forgot to pay on exit and left the car park without paying. The total stay was 35 mins and the driver should have paid £1.60. As the registered keeper of the vehicle I received a PCN within 14 days of the alleged offence.

I submitted an appeal via the online portal, which was subsequently rejected where I was asked to either pay the amount of the fine or appeal again. This was received via email, for which I ignored. I have now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus asking to pay £170 by 15 November 2024, the letter was received yesterday, 11 November 2024. I have also written to the PALS team at the hospital, who have responded mentioning that they would pass this on to the facilities management team but the charge appears to still be outstanding.

According to the information on this site, or my interpretation of that information, I am to also ignore this demand from the debt recovery firm. There is a part of me that just wants to pay this to get rid of the issue, but these charges I hugely unfair for a genuine mistake so willing to pursue assuming no significant risk. What are the next steps, what should I be doing now. Is it time for a POPLA appeal, should I write to the local MP and CEO of NHS Trust as I have written in my response, see below.

As mentioned, below are the first appeal to UKCPM who manage the car park and the email sent to PALS at the hospital. Any help or guidance is much appreciated.

First appeal

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client, the landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle. If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

 I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle.

 I further dispute the Parking Charge on the grounds that I believe it was unfairly issued given that the alleged duration was 35 mins, further which, it is not clear whether this includes any 'grace period' as defined by the British Parking Association (BPA). The charge is also disproportionate and not commercially justifiable. In my case, the £100 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner which to my understanding is £1.60 for a stay of up to 1 hour. I therefore feel the charge you have asked for is excessive. 

 In addition, the occupant of the vehicle, who has a chronic illness was visiting the King George Hospital to undergo a treatment which involved over 35 needles injected into to the head, this is a regular appointment which the occupant attends every 3-6 months. The immediate side effects often experienced are extreme pain, tiredness and nausea which further causes distress and disorientation, all of which were experienced on the day in question. Please see attached confirmation of appointment.

 Given the fact that this parking charge is extremely unfair and disproportionate, the occupant of the vehicle had undergone an intrusive procedure for which severely uncomfortable side effects were experienced immediately post the procedure, a procedure that the occupant has every 3-6 months, at the same hospital which they have visited for at least the last 18 months for the aforementioned procedure. You should consider whether, as a first alleged offence (please feel free to review records of historical parking by this vehicle and include that in any evidence you wish to use) that this was a genuine and honest mistake.

 If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only correspondence you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

Email to PALS at King George Hospital

As keeper of the car, I have received what I believe to be a very unfair parking charge notice from UK Car Park Management (“CPM”) at King George Hospital after accompanying a patient of the hospital to a particularly traumatic and emotionally draining regular treatment.

This was the fifth such appointment over the past c.18 months where the required parking charge has been paid in full and on time on all occasions prior to the date of this parking charge notice. This regular appointment is for a chronic illness where treatment involves up to 35 needles injected into the head. The immediate side effects, which were experienced on this day include extreme pain, tiredness and nausea which further causes distress and disorientation. I have attached a copy of the appointment letter as proof of appointment.

 On this occasion, the parking charge was not paid in full due to the patient experiencing the side effects as described. The vehicle was within the boundaries of the car park for a total of 35 mins, which includes entering the car park, finding a space, and then subsequently exiting the car park once treatment was complete. The current charges for parking for this length of time at King George Hospital are £1.60.  This was a genuine and honest mistake, and the keeper of the car is happy to settle the unpaid parking charges of £1.60.

 I am deeply saddened that the NHS Trust is breaching Government Policy by allowing a private firm to profit from PCN’s, particularly in instances where patients are seeking regular, distressing, medical treatments, or are feeling particularly vulnerable. Firms like CPM are clearly incentivised to issue charges as their earnings are little other than penalty income, which is extremely wrong, and completely against the will of Parliament, as referenced in the website below, which states ‘Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, e.g. ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

I would also argue that, as a frequent outpatient attender, there should be an entitlement to free parking – see bullet point 2 of the above website – and therefore no genuine losses should have occurred, but this opportunity has not been afforded. As mentioned above, to bring this distressing ordeal to a close, the keeper is willing to pay the parking fee for genuine use of the car park, of £1.60, should you find this feasible to bring this matter to a close, but I find it outrageous that you allow these rogue operators to issue extortionate fines, sometimes over 50 times the original cost of a parking ticket.

I understand, as per the terms between the NHS Trust and CPM that CPM is required to consider circumstances like this. Based on the reasoning’s outlined above, I respectfully request your support in cancelling the charges in this instance. Should my request not receive the required support, I will be raising the matter further with the CEO of the NHS Trust, Amanda Pritchard, and Counsellor Jas Athwal MP, MP for Ilford South.

Coupon-mad

No POPLA is available if it's UKCPM because they aren't in the BPA.

Complain to PALS.  And yes, get your MP on the case for you.

andrewmccarthy

As per original post, I have complained to PALS, I will also email the local MP. What are the next steps if this is unsuccessful?

Coupon-mad

See the NEWBIES thread.

We can't do this piecemeal, no time.

andrewmccarthy

Just looking on the UKCPM website, its states that they are members of the BPA?

andrewmccarthy

And the BPA website confirms that they are members. So is the next stage POPLA?

Gr1pr

Most parking companies are corporate members of the BPA, so perhaps UK CPM are. ?

But really that is irrelevant, what actually matters is if they are signed up to the BPA AOS members list, which UK CPM aren't  ( definitely NOT listed on the BPA AOS members list. )

UK CPM are signed up to the IPC AOS members list, so use the IAS for appeals, with a very tiny success rate for appellants like you, so not recommended, even if UK CPM have allowed it. ?

So definitely no Popla, as coupon mad mentioned earlier, you definitely won't have received a Popla code, just not possible 

The complaints to the trust and via your local MP are the ONLY fruit bearing branches. ( The rest is a barren wasteland of heartache and let downs. )

andrewmccarthy

Gr1pr said:

Most parking companies are corporate members of the BPA, so perhaps UK CPM are. ?

But really that is irrelevant, what actually matters is if they are signed up to the BPA AOS members list, which UK CPM aren't  ( definitely NOT listed on the BPA AOS members list. )

UK CPM are signed up to the IPC AOS members list, so use the IAS for appeals, with a very tiny success rate for appellants like you, so not recommended, even if UK CPM have allowed it. ?

So definitely no Popla, as coupon mad mentioned earlier, you definitely won't have received a Popla code, just not possible 

The complaints to the trust and via your local MP are the ONLY fruit bearing branches. ( The rest is a barren wasteland of heartache and let downs. )

Thank you, given the deadline of 15 November 2024 on the DRP letter, and assuming no success with PALS and Local MP, could I simply call UKCPM and request that I pay the reduced amount to settle the case?

Gr1pr

We don't recommend anyone to pay them

Ignore DRP LTD, they are powerless, their self imposed deadline is meaningless 

I doubt that UK CPM will allow any reduced amount 

andrewmccarthy

I have now sent another letter to the facilities director of the hospital, where HOPEFULLY something is done. I do feel slightly anxious about leaving this to roll on.

KeithP

OP, have you based your forum username on your real name? If so, you may want to get your forum username changed to something completely anonymous.

I can't find it now but a little while ago MSE's forum rules used to say... 

Can I change my username?

In most circumstances, we don't allow this.

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If you fall into this category, email forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com your current username, the email address you registered with and three alternative usernames in order of preference.