Tentants as directors

Hoenir

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

Grumpy_chap

olisun said:

I am starting to worry that the directors (even though they have plans to sell and leave) are going to agree to things with the new freeholder without discussing it with all the leaseholders and will sell their flats and leave, leaving the rest of us to deal with it."

What type of things do you think the Directors will agree to?
What do you fear you will be left to deal with?

It is quite common that being a Director of an RMC is unpaid and thankless task.  The current flat owners that are selling and will, hence, relinquish their Directorship will more than likely be hesitant to sign off on anything and try to bide their time allowing whoever is in the future to take care of matters.  No-one wants to run the risk of accusation of inappropriate decisions.

olisun

Hoenir said:

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

I know but here is the problem.

The directors (one) gets upset when I ask certain questions regarding certain issues telling me to route it via the MA but at the same time I am being told the above.

So basically I can't ask any questions at all.

olisun

Grumpy_chap said:

olisun said:

I am starting to worry that the directors (even though they have plans to sell and leave) are going to agree to things with the new freeholder without discussing it with all the leaseholders and will sell their flats and leave, leaving the rest of us to deal with it."

What type of things do you think the Directors will agree to?
What do you fear you will be left to deal with?

It is quite common that being a Director of an RMC is unpaid and thankless task.  The current flat owners that are selling and will, hence, relinquish their Directorship will more than likely be hesitant to sign off on anything and try to bide their time allowing whoever is in the future to take care of matters.  No-one wants to run the risk of accusation of inappropriate decisions.

The directors can sell, sign off the share transfer, resign and hand it over at the last minute.

I don't think anybody is going to go after them once they have gone.

olisun

eddddy said:

olisun said:

When I look at the service charge accounts statement, every year the gardener is paid a different amount. For e.g. 2 years the gardenders were paid over £14k and the year after, £16K..

I will be definitely questioning it when I get the statement for this year.

You can challenge that as a leaseholder (and/or warn the company that you might challenge it).

For example, you could say something like this:


The The Landlord and Tenant Act 1985 says that Service charges must be reasonable.

The element of my Service Charge that relates to gardening does not seem reasonable to me, because... <a, b and c>.

Unless you can show me evidence that it's reasonable, I might challenge the Service Charge at Tribunal.

If the Tribunal agree that the Service Charge is is not reasonable, they will rule that you must refund some of it. Any refund cannot be paid out of Service Charge funds, so it will be up to the directors and shareholders to pay the refund out of their own pockets.

So basically we pay ourself back..

GDB2222

olisun said:

Hoenir said:

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

I know but here is the problem.

The directors (one) gets upset when I ask certain questions regarding certain issues telling me to route it via the MA but at the same time I am being told the above.

So basically I can't ask any questions at all.

Rightly or wrongly, they have you down as a troublesome person. That’s why they have not welcomed you on to the management company’s board. 

It’s a lot of work managing several blocks of flats, and the directors are not paid, even if the MA is. So, people asking lots of questions are unwelcome. That’s particularly true if you have no experience in doing the job. So, the directors don’t want to field your questions themselves, and they are aware that the MA will answer your questions but that will add to the costs. 

For example, you have queried the cost of the gardeners, but have you any direct experience of what they ought to cost? They may actually be pretty cheap. It would be rather different if you said something like “I have found a new gardening firm looking for business, and they are prepared to undercut the existing gardeners by 30%.”  

olisun

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

Hoenir said:

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

I know but here is the problem.

The directors (one) gets upset when I ask certain questions regarding certain issues telling me to route it via the MA but at the same time I am being told the above.

So basically I can't ask any questions at all.

Rightly or wrongly, they have you down as a troublesome person. That’s why they have not welcomed you on to the management company’s board. 

It’s a lot of work managing several blocks of flats, and the directors are not paid, even if the MA is. So, people asking lots of questions are unwelcome. That’s particularly true if you have no experience in doing the job. So, the directors don’t want to field your questions themselves, and they are aware that the MA will answer your questions but that will add to the costs. 

For example, you have queried the cost of the gardeners, but have you any direct experience of what they ought to cost? They may actually be pretty cheap. It would be rather different if you said something like “I have found a new gardening firm looking for business, and they are prepared to undercut the existing gardeners by 30%.”  

I would have looked into a new gardening firm, If there was a contract detailing the work and the charges.

I will be questioning the charges again to understand how it all works without a contract and the different amounts paid each year.

GDB2222

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

Hoenir said:

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

I know but here is the problem.

The directors (one) gets upset when I ask certain questions regarding certain issues telling me to route it via the MA but at the same time I am being told the above.

So basically I can't ask any questions at all.

Rightly or wrongly, they have you down as a troublesome person. That’s why they have not welcomed you on to the management company’s board. 

It’s a lot of work managing several blocks of flats, and the directors are not paid, even if the MA is. So, people asking lots of questions are unwelcome. That’s particularly true if you have no experience in doing the job. So, the directors don’t want to field your questions themselves, and they are aware that the MA will answer your questions but that will add to the costs. 

For example, you have queried the cost of the gardeners, but have you any direct experience of what they ought to cost? They may actually be pretty cheap. It would be rather different if you said something like “I have found a new gardening firm looking for business, and they are prepared to undercut the existing gardeners by 30%.”  

I would have looked into a new gardening firm, If there was a contract detailing the work and the charges.

I will be questioning the charges again to understand how it all works without a contract and the different amounts paid each year.

I would expect a contract gardening company to charge in the region of £50 an hour round here. Do you have a rough idea of how many hours they do per year? 

olisun

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

Hoenir said:

olisun said:

GDB2222 said:

olisun said:

eddddy said:

You haven't really explained the context of your question...


If your concerns are about things like:

• Unnecessary / inappropriate work being done
• Excessively expensive contractors being used
• Wanting to see invoices for Maintenance / Repairs

...then you could exercise your rights as a leaseholder to challenge any of those things.
 

This plus the fact that the existing directors are planning to sell and leave. One has already listed their flat.

I don't want to end up in a situation where the MA (secretary) is left alone on the board and ends up having a field day with the charges.

Unless I misunderstood the rules, I can ONLY see the invoices after the service accounts have been finalised and distributed. Plus it will be lot more expensive to chase up to recover those. The easiest option is to try and contain it now.

It may happen that a lot of expenses may have incurred for this year but then all directors have since sold and moved.

Just to clarify what's going on:

Can you just confirm that there's a right-to-manage company that's been set up?

That company has appointed a managing agent to do the day to day work?

Someone from the managing agent is on the board of the RTM company?

Some of the leaseholders are acting as directors, but these individuals have sold or are selling their flats?  

You are worried that they therefore won't properly supervise the activities of the managing agent?

Perhaps, youy could confirm if that's the gist of it. 



Have you contacted any of the directors, to ask whether they would welcome a hand with the management?

Yes, you're right that, as a leaseholder, you don't get to see (and approve) invoices when they come in. But, you could try to get yourself elected to the board of directors.

The RMC appoints a MA to look after the day to day work but I have been told that the MA's only responsibility is to do the basic stuff like invoices etc. If we start asking too many questions, the MA will start charging us extra. 

The MA will be charging for their time. That's the nature of any professional service company.  Employees time is more expensive than many people assume. 

I know but here is the problem.

The directors (one) gets upset when I ask certain questions regarding certain issues telling me to route it via the MA but at the same time I am being told the above.

So basically I can't ask any questions at all.

Rightly or wrongly, they have you down as a troublesome person. That’s why they have not welcomed you on to the management company’s board. 

It’s a lot of work managing several blocks of flats, and the directors are not paid, even if the MA is. So, people asking lots of questions are unwelcome. That’s particularly true if you have no experience in doing the job. So, the directors don’t want to field your questions themselves, and they are aware that the MA will answer your questions but that will add to the costs. 

For example, you have queried the cost of the gardeners, but have you any direct experience of what they ought to cost? They may actually be pretty cheap. It would be rather different if you said something like “I have found a new gardening firm looking for business, and they are prepared to undercut the existing gardeners by 30%.”  

I would have looked into a new gardening firm, If there was a contract detailing the work and the charges.

I will be questioning the charges again to understand how it all works without a contract and the different amounts paid each year.

I just received the accounts for 2023/2024 and they have paid over £18K for the gardenders. The gardenders had to do less work during that period because of the ongoing construction work for the last 12 months or so.

I was expecting the charges to either remain the same or go down.

Grumpy_chap

olisun said:

I just received the accounts for 2023/2024 and they have paid over £18K for the gardenders. The gardenders had to do less work during that period because of the ongoing construction work for the last 12 months or so.

I was expecting the charges to either remain the same or go down.

That figure for the cost of gardening is not something that anyone can comment on unless the quantum of gardening undertaken is determined.