Plumber being taken to Court

Getoffmycloud

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

On the point of insurance, I thought liability insurance was to cover injury and loss/damage to property, I'm sure it's been mentioned here before that there is a separate type of insurance to cover work not being done to the correct standard? 

I understand a small part of the claim is for damage but the bulk is effectively claiming the contract has been breached due to a lack of care and skill (I appreciate that is in dispute and the customer's claim sounds as if it may be without merit). 

Interesting; just googled it and it says the following (although I don't always trust Google):

Public liability insurance covers:

• Claims made against your business by members of the public.
• Injury to a customer or a member of the public.
• Damage to someone's property.
• Legal fees and compensation costs.
• Repair or replacement of damaged property.
• Medical fees in case of injury.

I think this claim would be classed as a claim made against your business by members of the public?

I'll contact the insurance company again to double check I think.

user1977

I think by "member of the public" they mean third parties, not customers. In any event, it's what the policy says which matters, not Google!

pinkshoes

Getoffmycloud said:

Hi, thank you for your response, I feel at such a loss here.

To go into a bit more detail the job in full was rip out the bathroom completely, re-tile and put a new bathroom back in. The customer is an ex-tiling business owner and it was when my husband started tiling that the customer said he didn't like the tiling. We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. We never heard from the customer again until the solicitor letter arrived.

In the letter the customer claimed that my husband damaged a wall and ceiling. The wall was damaged, but my husband repaired it. He also claims that the plasterboard used is the wrong kind, but we have proof of the plasterboard used and it can be used in kitchens and bathrooms.

We have had a letter before action and now proceedings have started. The stage we are at the moment is that we have an N181 directions questionnaire to complete and return to the courts.

I did reach out to his solicitor to perhaps negotiate a settlement. Their suggestion was still the £20,000 and ours was that we would not pursue a counterclaim if they dropped the court case, which did not go down well and they have suggested we instruct legal help as solicitors fees alone could be more than £20,000, which sent me into a bit of a panic because what if he does win the full £20,000 and then another £20,000 of solicitor fees on top would be horrible as I have no idea how we would pay that.

Sorry for the ramble, but any help or thoughts would be gratefully received.

This who thing seems farcical. From what you've said so far, the claim has no grounding at all. 

Your husband was hired to rip out a bathroom and fit a new one including tiling. The job was quoted at £9000 (labour and materials) of which the customer paid £4500 for the materials which they already have.

You have proof that the plasterboard was correct. You can prove some damage was fixed. I assume you have some evidence that the tiling WAS done to a good standard? (photos?).

The bit in bold above, I would quite this in your defence and make it clear that you can prove the tiling was done to a good standard, the customer said he would contact you regarding continuing fitting the bathroom once he had done the tiling himself, and you are more than happy to continue the job and are still awaiting him to finish the tiling. 

I'd counter claim £2000, which is for the labour on the job so far (work this out!), but as a gesture of goodwill, you will over-look the additional £2500 owed for labour if they will not allow him to finish the job. 


If he owned his own tiling business, then why didn't he get one of his own contacts to do the tiling if he was that fussy?!?!? Or is it because he is so awkward that none of them wanted to do it?!

Getoffmycloud

pinkshoes said:

This who thing seems farcical. From what you've said so far, the claim has no grounding at all. 

Your husband was hired to rip out a bathroom and fit a new one including tiling. The job was quoted at £9000 (labour and materials) of which the customer paid £4500 for the materials which they already have.

You have proof that the plasterboard was correct. You can prove some damage was fixed. I assume you have some evidence that the tiling WAS done to a good standard? (photos?).

The bit in bold above, I would quite this in your defence and make it clear that you can prove the tiling was done to a good standard, the customer said he would contact you regarding continuing fitting the bathroom once he had done the tiling himself, and you are more than happy to continue the job and are still awaiting him to finish the tiling. 

I'd counter claim £2000, which is for the labour on the job so far (work this out!), but as a gesture of goodwill, you will over-look the additional £2500 owed for labour if they will not allow him to finish the job. 


If he owned his own tiling business, then why didn't he get one of his own contacts to do the tiling if he was that fussy?!?!? Or is it because he is so awkward that none of them wanted to do it?!

Thank you Pinkshoes.

Yes we have photographic evidence of the tiling and I did exactly as you have suggested with the evidence of the photographs shared etc, but they have still pushed on and taken to court. I also counterclaimed for £2,250 as my husband had completed three quarters of the job, but only received money for half of it.

I have no idea why he didn't use his own contacts; apparently his son is a tiler too! I'm guessing its because they know what a nightmare he is and refused to do any work for him.

Getoffmycloud

On another note, does anyone know if there is anyway of looking up whether he has taken other traders to court previously? I suspect this is the case and if I can prove he has, it might go even further to strengthening the case.

DE_612183

Getoffmycloud said:

On another note, does anyone know if there is anyway of looking up whether he has taken other traders to court previously? I suspect this is the case and if I can prove he has, it might go even further to strengthening the case.

I don't think you can, and anyway it would not mean anything.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Getoffmycloud said:

On another note, does anyone know if there is anyway of looking up whether he has taken other traders to court previously? I suspect this is the case and if I can prove he has, it might go even further to strengthening the case.

I believe you can attend your local county court and request to view public documents, although I'm not sure what that includes, best to give them a call and ask what is accessible. 

Getoffmycloud

Hi all, I hope you don't mind me picking your brains again, but you were so hopeful on my previous post (plumber being taken to court).

We have a directions questionnaire for a fast track court case that needs to be completed and it seems that the other party and us agree on everything apart from the complexity banding. They believe it should be allocated to complexity band 4 and we think band 1. Our reason being that it is not a complex case and we believe the costs in the case have been artificially inflated in order to bring it outside the scope of the small claims track in order to recover their legal fees.

My question is, is it okay to write the above as to the reasons why we don't agree on complexity bands and submit to his solicitor and the courts?

I really want to make sure I fill out the form correctly.

A_Geordie

It would be helpful to keep the same matters under one thread as it avoids people who are looking to help having to find your previous post then potentially respond to multiple threads.

Can I ask whether the claimant has stated on Form N181 whether they intend to use any experts for the dispute?

Also what reasons has he given for proposing band 4?

Getoffmycloud

Hi Geordie, they haven't sent a copy of the form yet; they have only communicated via email to try to agree the points we need to try to agree on so I don't know whether they intend to use any experts.

The reason they have stated for band 4 is because Civil Procedure Rule 26.15 (Table 1) states that ‘property and building disputes’ should be allocated to complexity band 4.