Plumber being taken to Court

Getoffmycloud

Hi all, up until a few months ago my hubby had his own plumbing business and one of his former customers is taking him to court as he doesn't believe that the job was carried out well, that the wrong parts were used and that my husband damaged his property. He has only paid my husband £4,500, but is taking him to Court for £20,000. The only 'evidence' he has provided is photos of the works being carried out, not of the finished product. My husband has evidence which he has supplied.

We don't currently have a solicitor as we can't really afford one, but the customer does have a solicitor.

My concern is that if this goes to court and the customer does win the whole £20,000; would we have to sell the house to pay the debt? My husband has another job now, but has disposable income of around £150 a month and it would take 11 years to pay it at that rate, which I'm sure would not be accepted.

I am making enquiries to see if I can find a solicitor that we can afford, but has anyone been in a similar situation or have any advice please?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Hello OP

Sorry to hear, would likely get a more detailed response with letting us know what the job was in full detail, what exactly the customer says in wrong and what exactly the customer is alleging was damaged.  

What kind of discussions was there before being "taken to court" and what stage are you at (customer has threatened such, sent a letter before action, actually started proceedings)? Does the customer have an independent inspection/report/opinion on the matter to support their claim? 

thebullsback

did your Husband have Insurance to protect his company from this sort of event?

Getoffmycloud

Hi, thank you for your response, I feel at such a loss here.

To go into a bit more detail the job in full was rip out the bathroom completely, re-tile and put a new bathroom back in. The customer is an ex-tiling business owner and it was when my husband started tiling that the customer said he didn't like the tiling. We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. We never heard from the customer again until the solicitor letter arrived.

In the letter the customer claimed that my husband damaged a wall and ceiling. The wall was damaged, but my husband repaired it. He also claims that the plasterboard used is the wrong kind, but we have proof of the plasterboard used and it can be used in kitchens and bathrooms.

We have had a letter before action and now proceedings have started. The stage we are at the moment is that we have an N181 directions questionnaire to complete and return to the courts.

I did reach out to his solicitor to perhaps negotiate a settlement. Their suggestion was still the £20,000 and ours was that we would not pursue a counterclaim if they dropped the court case, which did not go down well and they have suggested we instruct legal help as solicitors fees alone could be more than £20,000, which sent me into a bit of a panic because what if he does win the full £20,000 and then another £20,000 of solicitor fees on top would be horrible as I have no idea how we would pay that.

Sorry for the ramble, but any help or thoughts would be gratefully received.

Getoffmycloud

thebullsback said:

did your Husband have Insurance to protect his company from this sort of event?

Hi, yes he does have liability insurance, but they have been very unhelpful. What we didn't realise with liability insurance is that their solicitors will only take on a case if they believe there is more than 51% of chance of winning the case. They do not believe he has more than a 51% chance and therefore will not take the case on.

Voyager2002

Getoffmycloud said:

Hi, thank you for your response, I feel at such a loss here.

To go into a bit more detail the job in full was rip out the bathroom completely, re-tile and put a new bathroom back in. The customer is an ex-tiling business owner and it was when my husband started tiling that the customer said he didn't like the tiling. We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. We never heard from the customer again until the solicitor letter arrived.

In the letter the customer claimed that my husband damaged a wall and ceiling. The wall was damaged, but my husband repaired it. He also claims that the plasterboard used is the wrong kind, but we have proof of the plasterboard used and it can be used in kitchens and bathrooms.

We have had a letter before action and now proceedings have started. The stage we are at the moment is that we have an N181 directions questionnaire to complete and return to the courts.

I did reach out to his solicitor to perhaps negotiate a settlement. Their suggestion was still the £20,000 and ours was that we would not pursue a counterclaim if they dropped the court case, which did not go down well and they have suggested we instruct legal help as solicitors fees alone could be more than £20,000, which sent me into a bit of a panic because what if he does win the full £20,000 and then another £20,000 of solicitor fees on top would be horrible as I have no idea how we would pay that.

Sorry for the ramble, but any help or thoughts would be gratefully received.

Remember that the solicitor works for his client, and at this stage his job is to frighten you (and by the sound of things he has done that very well!). Arm yourself with basic facts and then decide what to do...

Virtually all solicitors will offer an initial 30-minute discussion without charge. Do this rapidly, so that at least you can get answers to your questions about what happens if you lose, and how realistic your fears are about costs.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Thank you OP.

Which plasterboard was used and why does the customer feel it was the wrong type? I'd image the manufacturer has a detailed data sheet for the product stipulating the product specifications which might assist in providing some defence on that point. 

You say £4500 was paid, can you breakdown what that covered. I.e how much materials were supplied and left with the customer and how much was to cover labour. Also what was the total quote for the job and how much of that was for a) plasterboard b) tiles 3) labour for tiling. 

Getoffmycloud said:

 We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. 

Do you have proof of this or was it verbal? Do you know exactly what the customer is claiming is wrong with the tiling or is it just the plasterboard issue? 

Have you been given a breakdown of how a figure of £20,000 has been reached by the customer? 

Has the customer paid someone else to finish the job? 

Getoffmycloud

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Thank you OP.

Which plasterboard was used and why does the customer feel it was the wrong type? I'd image the manufacturer has a detailed data sheet for the product stipulating the product specifications which might assist in providing some defence on that point. 

You say £4500 was paid, can you breakdown what that covered. I.e how much materials were supplied and left with the customer and how much was to cover labour. Also what was the total quote for the job and how much of that was for a) plasterboard b) tiles 3) labour for tiling. 

Getoffmycloud said:

 We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. 

Do you have proof of this or was it verbal? Do you know exactly what the customer is claiming is wrong with the tiling or is it just the plasterboard issue? 

Have you been given a breakdown of how a figure of £20,000 has been reached by the customer? 

Has the customer paid someone else to finish the job? 

I honestly don't know why he thinks it was the wrong plasterboard; he claims it wasn't waterproof, but we have sent evidence of the plasterboard used with an extract from their website which says it can be used in kitchens and bathrooms.

The £4,500 that was paid was a 50% deposit which he always takes upfront; this is to cover the costs of ordering the materials. The whole bathroom was ordered and the customer still has it. The total quote for the job was £9,000, but it was a verbal quote so wasn't broken down into how much was for each part of the job. I should have said that the customer purchased the tiles himself so the £9k was bathroom parts and labour only.

We don't have proof of the fact the customer said he would re-tile and then invite my husband back; it was only verbal.

The £20k is broken down as £4.5k that he paid my husband, £2k to remedy poor workmanship and remedy failure to properly install the bathroom, £1k to replace bathroom tiles that were poorly installed, £1k for damage to wall and ceiling and waste removal. The remaining £11.5k is for distress, inconvenience and loss of peace of mind. It also states in the letter that the customer expects to recover more than £10k, but not more than £20k

user1977

Getoffmycloud said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Thank you OP.

Which plasterboard was used and why does the customer feel it was the wrong type? I'd image the manufacturer has a detailed data sheet for the product stipulating the product specifications which might assist in providing some defence on that point. 

You say £4500 was paid, can you breakdown what that covered. I.e how much materials were supplied and left with the customer and how much was to cover labour. Also what was the total quote for the job and how much of that was for a) plasterboard b) tiles 3) labour for tiling. 

Getoffmycloud said:

 We then went away for a long weekend (the tiling was almost finished at this point) and when we got back the customer said he was going to re-tile the bathroom himself and when he was done he would call my husband back to re-fit the bathroom. 

Do you have proof of this or was it verbal? Do you know exactly what the customer is claiming is wrong with the tiling or is it just the plasterboard issue? 

Have you been given a breakdown of how a figure of £20,000 has been reached by the customer? 

Has the customer paid someone else to finish the job? 

The remaining £11.5k is for distress, inconvenience and loss of peace of mind.

That bit sounds a non-starter anyway (other than any "inconvenience" which can actually be vouched because it led to out-of-pocket expenses).

Voyager2002

Getoffmycloud said:

The £20k is broken down as £4.5k that he paid my husband, £2k to remedy poor workmanship and remedy failure to properly install the bathroom, £1k to replace bathroom tiles that were poorly installed, £1k for damage to wall and ceiling and waste removal. The remaining £11.5k is for distress, inconvenience and loss of peace of mind. It also states in the letter that the customer expects to recover more than £10k, but not more than £20k

That  "remaining £11.5K" is totally unrealistic: British courts do not make awards on that scale for 'inconvenience'! From this we know that he is not listening to his solicitor's advice and really does not know what he is doing. 

You can feel less worried than previously.

Getoffmycloud

Thank you user1977 and voyager2022. We did think when the letter arrived that it was a ludicrous amount. We have had experience of a court case before (hence why my husband is no longer self-employed) and at the time we were told that the claim should be to the amount that would put you back in the position you would have been had the job been carried out correctly i.e. you can only claim for the costs of the repairs.

We also thought the solicitor was crazy to have allowed his client to submit such a claim, but now he is sending these emails suggesting we will have to pay back the whole £20k plus the same in legal expenses, I did panic.

Thank you so much for your reassurance.