Octopus 'smart' electric meter with two kWh readings

pulling_my_hair_out

Octopus recently had smart meters fitted, then partly commissioned. The gas meter works, they get readings from it, but the electric meter wouldn't commission, so we were told by the person who came to do it. However, Octopus are now saying that they are getting readings from the smart electric meter, but they are not what I read from the meter. Before they changed the electric meter we used to have two readings, one higher than the other, plus a combined reading, presumably suitable for a tariff with a day rate and night rate. I always gave the combined reading because we were using the electric regardless of time of day. Now the 'smart' meter is fitted, with two readings as before, Octopus are saying that only the first of the two readings is correct, that the combined one is wrong. We only needed a single-reading meter fitted but we got what we got. Maybe one day we'll get an electric car and the dual-rate meter will be useful if we find a suitable tariff at that time. But for now we have one price per unit for gas and electric, it's just that Octopus are now saying that we've been over-paying our electric by giving them the combined meter reading rather than the first of two separate readings. We are never going to get free electric and when they realise their mistake they will expect us to pay the massive arrears that will have accumulated. We are already under-paying them by about £150 on electric after 6 weeks (it's big house), so how bad will it get in a year or more? Maybe I've got the meter readings wrong? Have I? Why would the meter have two kWh readings if we weren't using the electric? No one else is plugged into our supply. We have a big old damp Victorian house that needs dehumidifiers on every night and that runs up the lower reading. We've tried to get Octopus to see their error but they keep saying that the meter is working fine.

Apologies for the lengthy essay.. this is my first post on here.

cannugec5

I think you are correct. 

My smart meter, that is dumb, also has 2 ‘sections’. The first shows a number of KWh and the second has always read zero since installation. 

Like you, I have always presumed the second register is for a two rate tariff that we don’t have. 

Does the combined reading tally with your previous historical usage?
Have you compared with readings on an In House Display (IHD) or app? 

I think this may be too complicated for the general customer services and you might need to request it is escalated. 

Thereafter an official written complaint.  

Then to the ombudsman if Octopus fail to correct their error. 

pulling_my_hair_out

The combined reading is a continuation from before the fitting of the 'smart' meter. 
We don't have an IHD, never got sent one although Octopus recently said that maybe we might like to have one! They still have not sent one. We don't have the app functioning due to the little pink plastic box plugged in close the meter not functioning correctly either.
I'll try speaking to them one more time before making a complaint and then taking it to the ombudsman. I looked at changing to a different supplier hoping that they might have a different attitude towards the problem but it seems that the fixed deal we just started with Octopus is better than we can currently get from any other company.

Scot_39

Firstly - as you had a two rate meter or meters and probably a MPAN meter / profile code 02 - you would likely have been given a 2 rate smart meter by default - no matter what your current tariff was. 

[And be warned a two rate tariff - can creep back in too when that gets updated on a suppliers systems - a problem that regularly occurs on supply switchover including iirc some of Shell's customers when moved as part of buy out.  As well as some being asked to pay for 2 MPAN's again for those with dual meters.]

I am confused - as to why Octopus are querying the one of twin readings vs combined though - or even why they are producing bills based on you manually adding the two - or sending in the combined from the meter (*).

It may just be a confused customer services rep - saying rate 1 is what they would expect given your single rate tariff (although I would hope they should be well aware of 2 rate meters billed on single rate tariff by now - it is a relatively small number - maybe sub 5% homes - who will have that mix)

Does your meter identify these 3 readings as say T,R1,R2.  Either on screen or on meter case and a marker.

You can get a weird net reading problem on some combined if exporting e.g. solar - it isn't always just total import - certainly on some early digital - that was identified as a problem - iirc some subtracted - some said actually worse as added.

Does combined or total = rate 1 + rate 2 kWh readings

If both registers on new are still incrementing - (your comment re dehumidifiers) at the relevant off peak and peak times - then you should obviously IMO be paying the total of the two.

Check again if not done for a while - it might have changed by OTA update when meter comms re-established ?

Have Octopus explicitly told you what your meter configuration has been set to ?

[(*) My uncle was trapped in the interim state - dual rate meters - but single rate tariff - but his bills didn't ever use totals though - just both registers charged at single rate.  He went single smart c3 yrs after going SR tariff (waited on new mast having failed twice at install time) - but now has profile 01 in MPAN - and a smets2 with a now single rate meter configuration to match tariff - so 1 active reading (well if hasnt gone to Cosy in last few months - it's not a regular topic on phone calls).]

As above - think you need to go into writing / email CS - maybe including some examples readings - say across a few days - by email - showing both incrementing and totals matching sum of the two on both days - and say you do not understand why you have been told will only be billed say day rate register 1 (one of two assuming as above active).

I'd also check the serial numbers on bills vs physical meter - and do a sanity check by keeping manual readings around bill time if cannot see smart meter readings by them on their portal - and directly compare - to make sure it is your meter you are being billed for.

EssexHebridean

The little plastic box you talk about is the home mini, yes? Have you tried unplugging that, giving it 5 minutes or so then plugging it back in again to see if it re-sets? There is some decent trouble-shooting around those on here as I recall - so it may be worth trying that, then if it still doesn't work,coming back for more input. At least that way you will have the app to be able to check things on. 

The vital thing while you work out the situation with the electric costs is that you continue to work out what you think you should be paying, and make sure that you put every penny of that to one side in case it's needed - that way if they do realise subsequently that you were making the correct payments, you won't be left with a panic over that side of thigs at least. 

pulling_my_hair_out

Octopus are now saying that the first reading, T01 .... kWh, includes the T02 reading. Which is weird considering that there's also the combined reading. Why would the combined reading be the sum of T01 and T02 when T02 is included in T01? Even the manager(s) at Octopus, whoever they are, said that their understanding of it is correct. 
I suspect they need some maths lessons. 

Scot_39

Strange.

Maybe combined is net for solar.

Although in some that net is hidden in a submenu.

Surely wirhout export then match.

Did they say what the combined actually meant.


Perhaps if you give your meter brand model number others can comment on their measurements.


Can you run the numbers yourself over a few days.  Against any 1/2 hr breakdown. Via app for mini if get working.

pulling_my_hair_out

We don't have solar here, rarely get any sun.
The meter is a 'Kaifa MA120', that's the only thing I can see as a model name/number or make.

pulling_my_hair_out

I just found a page on Octopus website describing how to read the meter we have. 
So it seems that Octopus are incapable of reading their own website.
The meter reading is displayed on the screen as the screen cycles through date/time/reading/something else/date/time.... 
When Octopus think the meter is commissioned don't just believe them, check it. We were told our meter would never be commissioned and yet Octopus think it is.

Scot_39

This link supposedly lifted from Octopus pages for the meter  assuming ref to "tentacled friends" is Octopus Wnergy

https://community.eonnext.com/threads/7767-New-Smart-meter-fitted-Kaifa-MA120B-and-E7-any-manual-anywhere

I'd search Octopus site or curent version then point customer services at it - to eithef correct or correct the billing.

MWT

This is going to take a little sorting out, but if you are on a single-rate tariff then you should find that only one of the registers is increasing, and if this was the case when your new meter was installed then the other register should be 0, if you can see it at all...

In all probability your new meter was incorrectly commissioned as a 2-rate E7 meter due to your profile still being set that way and if you are seeing both registers increase then you are correct to be giving them the total of those two as your consumption.

I would register a complaint to get their attention and remind them you are on a single-rate tariff, but your meter is still accumulating the use into two separate registers so it has been set up incorrectly.

They can fix this remotely, and in the future if you need to go back to a 2-rate meter for any reason then that too can be changed remotely.