Have just started a fixed-rate tarriff with British Gas, for electricity - their get-out clause

quartzz

Ildhund - sure. I guess my point is, on their sales website page their loudly declare "fixed" in large fonts. somewhere in my mind I'm suspecting "could this "fixed" tarriff have small print which means it could increase". low and behold, the first thing I see on the email I receive after I've locked myself into the contract, is...

oh, tbh, I'm absolutely certain that they've covered themself for any "external" price increases, buried in a paragraph somewhere

Scot_39

But had you locked yourself in ?

Are you sure you didn't / don't have any cancellation rights.

And why would you ever sign up to a contract without reading the T&Cs first.

Energy suppliers have had to deal with a very unstable business world - both in terms of volatile wholesale pricing (even the smoothed Ofgem cap more than trebled before EPG discounting) - and the regulatory environment - debt charges, shifting over £100 of grid network costs from unit to electric SC etc.

Personally surprised more haven't adopted the explicit SP "Flexi" type contracts with pass through approach.

But whilst you worry about the upside risk - take one recent major practical example that springs to mind - was when those who signed up to fixes immediately prior to EPG in autumn 2022 - were actually allowed to relinquish fix - or at least charged at lower capped rates.

A cost saving for customers - not a cost hike.

MattMattMattUK

quartzz said:

Gerry1 said:

The government can alter the VAT rate and add environmental taxes.  Would you expect BG not to pass them on?

well, there's some ambiguous variables if ever there were

"our tarriff is fixed - unless the cost goes up or there's an additional charge"

in the case of the tarriff I've chosen, the kWh per hour I would imagine is standard across the board. it's the standing charge (47p/day) which got me to sign the contract

Scot_39 said:

Even BG would surely realise they would suffer reputational and maybe mass customer losses - if raised prices when others honored their fixes.

you would er......hope

You seem to fail to understand that the energy suppliers could be obligated to change prices by the government, they do not have an option under those circumstances. Just as you can place a pre-order with a retailer but if the government changes the VAT rate before the order is complete then they would have to apply the new rate.

If the government abolished VAT on energy bills would you expect your energy prices to stay the same, rather than go down? 

No business is immune to legislative changes, no contract can override tax legislation, no contract can override government mandated changes.

MattMattMattUK

quartzz said:

Hi, I go with my original statement -- potential bill received (due to get out clause) > quoted rates. I'd put money on the bill being higher than the quoted rates, rather than lower. chances of VAT decreasing, pretty low I'd say

It does not matter, if legislation changes then energy suppliers will have to comply, just as employers have to comply with PAYE changes. I cannot fathom why you feel you should be immune to legal changes.

quartzz

ok.....


Scot_39 said:

But had you locked yourself in ?

Are you sure you didn't / don't have any cancellation rights.

And why would you ever sign up to a contract without reading the T&Cs first.

Energy suppliers have had to deal with a very unstable business world - both in terms of volatile wholesale pricing (even the smoothed Ofgem cap more than trebled before EPG discounting) - and the regulatory environment - debt charges, shifting over £100 of grid network costs from unit to electric SC etc.

Personally surprised more haven't adopted the explicit SP "Flexi" type contracts with pass through approach.

But whilst you worry about the upside risk - take one recent major practical example that springs to mind - was when those who signed up to fixes immediately prior to EPG in autumn 2022 - were actually allowed to relinquish fix - or at least charged at lower capped rates.

A cost saving for customers - not a cost hike.

ok.....

Are you sure you didn't / don't have any cancellation rights.

yes. they loudly declared the exit fee. this is not an issue

And why would you ever sign up to a contract without reading the T&Cs first.

please read my comments. and also direct the above comment to anyone who has ever signed up for a contract, ever

and......the rest. thanks.
I'm not personally familiar with the example you gave in your last paragraph

quartzz

MattMattMattUK said:

quartzz said:

Hi, I go with my original statement -- potential bill received (due to get out clause) > quoted rates. I'd put money on the bill being higher than the quoted rates, rather than lower. chances of VAT decreasing, pretty low I'd say

It does not matter, if legislation changes then energy suppliers will have to comply, just as employers have to comply with PAYE changes. I cannot fathom why you feel you should be immune to legal changes.

read my comments please. thanks.

quartzz

MattMattMattUK said:

quartzz said:

Gerry1 said:

The government can alter the VAT rate and add environmental taxes.  Would you expect BG not to pass them on?

well, there's some ambiguous variables if ever there were

"our tarriff is fixed - unless the cost goes up or there's an additional charge"

in the case of the tarriff I've chosen, the kWh per hour I would imagine is standard across the board. it's the standing charge (47p/day) which got me to sign the contract

Scot_39 said:

Even BG would surely realise they would suffer reputational and maybe mass customer losses - if raised prices when others honored their fixes.

you would er......hope

You seem to fail to understand that the energy suppliers could be obligated to change prices by the government, they do not have an option under those circumstances. Just as you can place a pre-order with a retailer but if the government changes the VAT rate before the order is complete then they would have to apply the new rate.

If the government abolished VAT on energy bills would you expect your energy prices to stay the same, rather than go down? 

No business is immune to legislative changes, no contract can override tax legislation, no contract can override government mandated changes.

read my comments please. thanks.

"If the government abolished VAT on energy bills". I realise you are giving a completely hypothetical situation. and, as I think you would agree, it's just that. hypothetical

doodling

Hi,

quartzz said:

MattMattMattUK said:

quartzz said:

Gerry1 said:

The government can alter the VAT rate and add environmental taxes.  Would you expect BG not to pass them on?

well, there's some ambiguous variables if ever there were

"our tarriff is fixed - unless the cost goes up or there's an additional charge"

in the case of the tarriff I've chosen, the kWh per hour I would imagine is standard across the board. it's the standing charge (47p/day) which got me to sign the contract

Scot_39 said:

Even BG would surely realise they would suffer reputational and maybe mass customer losses - if raised prices when others honored their fixes.

you would er......hope

You seem to fail to understand that the energy suppliers could be obligated to change prices by the government, they do not have an option under those circumstances. Just as you can place a pre-order with a retailer but if the government changes the VAT rate before the order is complete then they would have to apply the new rate.

If the government abolished VAT on energy bills would you expect your energy prices to stay the same, rather than go down? 

No business is immune to legislative changes, no contract can override tax legislation, no contract can override government mandated changes.

read my comments please. thanks.

"If the government abolished VAT on energy bills". I realise you are giving a completely hypothetical situation. and, as I think you would agree, it's just that. hypothetical

But, so is your concern.  You can't rationally claim that a change in VAT is hypothetical whilst also claiming that your concern regarding BG putting up their prices due to legislative or regulatory action is not.  Unless of course, you can provide an example...

MattMattMattUK

quartzz said:

MattMattMattUK said:

quartzz said:

Hi, I go with my original statement -- potential bill received (due to get out clause) > quoted rates. I'd put money on the bill being higher than the quoted rates, rather than lower. chances of VAT decreasing, pretty low I'd say

It does not matter, if legislation changes then energy suppliers will have to comply, just as employers have to comply with PAYE changes. I cannot fathom why you feel you should be immune to legal changes.

read my comments please. thanks.

quartzz said:

MattMattMattUK said:

quartzz said:

Gerry1 said:

The government can alter the VAT rate and add environmental taxes.  Would you expect BG not to pass them on?

well, there's some ambiguous variables if ever there were

"our tarriff is fixed - unless the cost goes up or there's an additional charge"

in the case of the tarriff I've chosen, the kWh per hour I would imagine is standard across the board. it's the standing charge (47p/day) which got me to sign the contract

Scot_39 said:

Even BG would surely realise they would suffer reputational and maybe mass customer losses - if raised prices when others honored their fixes.

you would er......hope

You seem to fail to understand that the energy suppliers could be obligated to change prices by the government, they do not have an option under those circumstances. Just as you can place a pre-order with a retailer but if the government changes the VAT rate before the order is complete then they would have to apply the new rate.

If the government abolished VAT on energy bills would you expect your energy prices to stay the same, rather than go down? 

No business is immune to legislative changes, no contract can override tax legislation, no contract can override government mandated changes.

read my comments please. thanks.

"If the government abolished VAT on energy bills". I realise you are giving a completely hypothetical situation. and, as I think you would agree, it's just that. hypothetical

I have read your comments, they are not rational and you seem to be deliberately misunderstanding the contractual clauses.

quartzz

then you have not read my comments, and neither has the person who has upvoted you.

I'll try again and I'll probably repeat myself.

British Gas Homepage, large letters: "this is the fixed rate tarriff information"

my overactive imagination: "I'm sure there are conditions where this price can change [read, increase] buried in the TC's, and I'm sure that every other supplier has the same get out clause in their TC's.

I select the tarriff, with this in the back of my mind.

I receive the welcome email from BG, and in plain text in the welcome email, is an ambiguous disclaimer which says "there may be factors which cause price changes [assume: increase]"

I am really not sure what is incredibly complicated about this. bill received possibly > tarriff information when contract taken out.

hope that helps.