Very returns.

Okell

Rev said:

Okell said:

Rev said:

Okell said:

Rev said:

eskbanker said:

As you've already returned it, all you can really do at this stage is to wait and see what Very's response is and take it from there - the wording on their returns page linked from page 1 seems to be a reasonable reflection of the regulations and doesn't seek to exclude returns of such products, despite what was said by the person you dealt with:

Your Right to Cancel under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

You also have the legal right to cancel your order under these regulations. However, this cancellation right does not apply to personalised products, perishable goods, audio & video recordings and computer software which have been opened and goods that are unsuitable for return for health or hygiene reasons if they are unsealed after delivery.

The cancellation period will expire 14 days after the goods are received by you or by a third party nominated by you to receive the goods. If your order is for multiple products for separate delivery, the cancellation period will end 14 days after receipt of the last item. You must clearly communicate to us your decision to cancel before the end of the cancellation period. You can do this, for example, by completing and sending us the Model Cancellation Form found in the Returns section of our website Help pages.

If you do cancel, we will reimburse you the cost of the cancelled goods and the standard delivery charge by the original means of payment. Where the goods have not been delivered, the reimbursement will be made within 14 days of the cancellation. Where the goods have been delivered, the reimbursement will be made within 14 days of us receiving the goods back or us receiving evidence that you have returned the goods, whichever is earlier.

You are responsible for returning the goods to us if you cancel under these Regulations. So, if you use our courier service to return the goods you will be responsible for the cost of the return. In such cases, we will deduct the standard delivery charge from your refund so that you do not have to make a further payment for the return.

You’re right. Nothing I can do at this point but see what they say when it gets back to them. 

If they refuse it I will probably just accept it back and try and recoup as much as possible selling privately. 

I'm not sure I'd accept it.

You can't lose your right to cancel a "distance contract" within 14 days - the trader has to accept your cancellation.

What the trader can do, however, is to deduct an amount from your refund to reflect any loss in value of the item arising from your "... handling of the goods... beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods..."

I'm not convinced that simply opening it and turning it on would entitle Very to deduct anything from a full refund - but I'm no IT geek or computer expert and really have no idea what "handling" would devalue your piece of kit

If Very persist in telling you that you aren't entitled to any refund at all, refer them to paras 29, 33 and 34 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, and point out to them that the law says something very different.

Then the issues become whether you are entitled to full refund, or whether they are entitled to deduct an amount, and what that amount might be.

One stumbling block for you might be that in order to exercise your statutory right to cancel a distance contract within 14 days, the regulations say that you must clearly inform the trader that you are cancelling the contract - see para 32(2) and (3).

Very might be able to argue that by telling them only that you were "returning using the 14 day cooling off period", that you hadn't told them you were cancelling the contract, as required by the regulations.  If you are still within the 14 days it might be worth your confirming to them ASAP that by returning the item you were exercising your statutory right to cancel the contract under para 29 of the regulations.

The frontline Very consumer services staff probably don't know the relevant law so you may need to push it with them.

Or just sell it privately to avoid the extra hassle...


NB - for future reference, when returning goods under a distance sale make sure you understand the differences between your statutory rights under the cancellation regulations and your rights under the trader's own returns policy.  If you decide to cancel the contract under the regulations, make sure you tell the trader that that is what you are doing

Thank you. Yeah when I called very the woman I spoke to didn’t have a clue what I was talking about when I mentioned the 14 day cooling off and basically just kept saying it’s opened so we won’t accept it. She put me on hold for a second then came back and told me to return it but that it may not be accepted. 

I’m definitely within the 14 days as I only took delivery Monday. 

On the return form there was no option to tick ‘returning under cooling off period’ So I did write on the form that I was cancelling the contract under the 14 day cooling off. 

If I were you I think I'd contact them again and clarify to them that when you returned the item "under the 14 day cooling off period" that what you were doing was exercising your statutory right to cancel a distance contract within 14 days of delivery under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

How to exercise your right to cancel is covered under para 32 of the above regulations.

Basically it says that you need to inform the trader by making a clear statement that you are cancelling the contract.

I doesn't say you have to do it in writing, but that is probably preferable.  If you do it by email or letter you need to make sure you send it off before the expiry of the 14 day cancellation window.

Thank you. I’ll send them an email to that effect tonight. 

Just make sure that you tell them that you are clarifying to them that when you returned it under the 14 day "cooling off" period, your intention was to inform them that you were exercising your statutory right to cancel the distance contract under s29 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, but unfortunately their return documentation did not give that as an option.

While opening sealed computer software or a sealed audio or video recording can remeove your right to cancel under the regs, I can't see where the regs say you can't open any other sealed products.  (Except those sealed for hygiene purposes)

So far as I'm aware, you can cancel the contract at any time within 14 days of delivery.  (Although I'm willing to be corrected on that).

Okell

screech_78 said:

There might be an issue depending on how OP has returned the iPad. 

If they’ve returned it under Very’s own returns policy (pre-printed returns label, free return etc) then the iPad should meet all other terms of that policy such as being unused and can be rejected on that basis. 

I haven’t read Very’s terms but usually if cancelling the contract under CCR’s, it’s the customers responsibility to arrange the return and pay for this...

Fair points.

But however the OP returned the iPad the regulations appear to say thet he can still cancel within 14 days.  The iPad was only delivered 5 days ago(?) and the OP has already returned it.  Even though he didn't explicitly say he was cancelling and instead said he was returning it under the 14 day cooling off period, the regulations don't say he has lost the right to cancel.  But I may be wrong...

The returns policy posted up by @eskbanker says this about cancellation and the cost of returning:

You are responsible for returning the goods to us if you cancel under these Regulations. So, if you use our courier service to return the goods you will be responsible for the cost of the return. In such cases, we will deduct the standard delivery charge from your refund so that you do not have to make a further payment for the return.

To me that means the OP doesn't lose the right to cancel just becasue he used Very's prepaid return, it just means Very will deduct the cost form his refund

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

screech_78 said:

We successfully defended a small claims court case a few months ago where a customer returned a vacuum cleaner (although they didn’t contact us at all).

This might be the issue there, the regs do require the consumer to make a clear statement that they are exercising their right to cancel.

Out of interest does your company provide the customer with a model cancellation form? 

(exampled in Part B )

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/3

screech_78

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

We successfully defended a small claims court case a few months ago where a customer returned a vacuum cleaner (although they didn’t contact us at all).

This might be the issue there, the regs do require the consumer to make a clear statement that they are exercising their right to cancel.

Out of interest does your company provide the customer with a model cancellation form? 

(exampled in Part B )

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/3

I’m not aware of any form, no. 

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

We successfully defended a small claims court case a few months ago where a customer returned a vacuum cleaner (although they didn’t contact us at all).

This might be the issue there, the regs do require the consumer to make a clear statement that they are exercising their right to cancel.

Out of interest does your company provide the customer with a model cancellation form? 

(exampled in Part B )

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/3

I’m not aware of any form, no. 

I don't think it has to be a form as such, as in I think it could simply be text on a website, as part of the T&Cs for example, for the customer to copy and paste. 

Without the model cancellation form the consumer wouldn't be bound by the contract but as before with this point I don't know what that means in real terms for a contract where the goods are delivered and then used by the customer. 

screech_78

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

screech_78 said:

We successfully defended a small claims court case a few months ago where a customer returned a vacuum cleaner (although they didn’t contact us at all).

This might be the issue there, the regs do require the consumer to make a clear statement that they are exercising their right to cancel.

Out of interest does your company provide the customer with a model cancellation form? 

(exampled in Part B )

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/schedule/3

I’m not aware of any form, no. 

I don't think it has to be a form as such, as in I think it could simply be text on a website, as part of the T&Cs for example, for the customer to copy and paste. 

Without the model cancellation form the consumer wouldn't be bound by the contract but as before with this point I don't know what that means in real terms for a contract where the goods are delivered and then used by the customer. 

I had a Quick Look on our website and only see the terms relating to cancelling under CCR’s and how to do this. If it’s wrong, then I imagine they would be in hot water. 

But, there’s only one case I’ve seen that’s went to small claims citing CCR’s and cancellation (the one I mentioned previously)and the judge ruled in our favour. I’ll ask the question from our legal advisor whenever I next speak with them. 

Rev

No updates as yet. The iPad was delivered back to very on the 27th. But I’ve not heard anything as yet. 

Ergates

This thread is an interesting counter-part to the posts we get on here from people who have bought some a TV  (or some other piece of consumer electronics), who subsequently discover the box has been previously opened and refuse to accept that the item in question is new.

For a significant proportion of customers, simply opening the box means the item should not be sold full price as new.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Ergates said:

This thread is an interesting counter-part to the posts we get on here from people who have bought some a TV  (or some other piece of consumer electronics), who subsequently discover the box has been previously opened and refuse to accept that the item in question is new.

For a significant proportion of customers, simply opening the box means the item should not be sold full price as new.

It is interesting and I completely agree that I also wouldn’t want an opened iPad or what have you when expecting new but I don’t see what it has do with anything in the thread, unless you are worried Very will resell the iPad to an unsuspecting customer? 

Ergates

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Ergates said:

This thread is an interesting counter-part to the posts we get on here from people who have bought some a TV  (or some other piece of consumer electronics), who subsequently discover the box has been previously opened and refuse to accept that the item in question is new.

For a significant proportion of customers, simply opening the box means the item should not be sold full price as new.

It is interesting and I completely agree that I also wouldn’t want an opened iPad or what have you when expecting new but I don’t see what it has do with anything in the thread, unless you are worried Very will resell the iPad to an unsuspecting customer? 

The interesting bit is the conflicting expectations that we, as customers, have - with the retailers squashed in the middle.

On one side we expect to be able to buy something, open it, test it, then be able to send it back and get all our money back.   So when we return something having opened it and tested it, it has retained it's full value.

On the other side we expect to not pay full price for something that someone else has opened and tested.  So if someone else opens and tests it, it loses a significant chunk of it's value.

These two positions are directly contradictory.