Section 75 on a Pram

Jaybuck

Hi All,

I'm banging my head against a wall and don't know where to go from here. Looking for some advice from anyone else thats had a similar experience.

I bought a pram for my daughter intended for our granddaughter when she was born. It was bought in Feb 22 and she was born at the end of July.

It July this year it broke at a weld rendering it unusable. We attempted to contact the retailer (Bambino and Me) and they were completely un contactable. The website was gone and there was no way to get hold of them.

We contacted Mii Babiie who did not want to help just telling us that our contract was with the retailer. I know this is the case but really thought they might be a bit more supportive given they manufactured the item.

We felt we had no other option but to open a section 75 claim with our credit card company American Express. They asked for loads of information from us to prove purchase, pictures of the problem etc etc etc.

We recently got an email stating that they want us to get an independent assessment from a qualified person that they can validate the credentials of to confirm that the issue is as a result of a defect with the pram.

How many pram repair people are there out there? Its not like its a washing machine or something. I really don't know how to reasonably go about providing this evidence that American Express want off of us. I've called Amex to ask for some suggestions as to who I should contact to provide this and they dont want to help.

Any advice on where to go from here?

Aylesbury_Duck

It's doesn't need to be a pram expert.  Since it's broken at a weld, an independent vehicle workshop should be able to provide an independent assessment of the quality of the weld or welded materials.

Be careful with how you deal with Amex.  I believe S75 only applies if you are the beneficiary.  You buying and gifting the pram to your daughter may be viewed as breaking the chain.  It doesn't sound like Amex are quibbling about it, but I think they may be able to.

Jaybuck

Thanks for taking the time to reply Aylesbury_Duck

The have been specific in stating that they must be from the related industry. See below copy from their email.

"The company that conducts such a report must be independent from any party involved in the claim in question and trade within the related industry"

user1977

Jaybuck said:

The have been specific in stating that they must be from the related industry. See below copy from their email.

"The company that conducts such a report must be independent from any party involved in the claim in question and trade within the related industry"

If you wanted to have some fun, you could ask them where in the legislation it says that.

Anyone who knows about welding should be sufficient. The law isn't even that specific, all it says is that the onus is on you to prove (on the balance of probabilities i.e. 51+%) that the fault was inherent. You don't need to look for a professor of pram engineering.

Jellynailer

In law, the retailer is responsible for dealing with the first year of a manufacturer's warranty/guarantee.

Bambino and me Ltd is registered with Companies House reg. no. SC694418;  Registered address: Office 18, 259 Summerlee Street, Glasgow, G33 4DB; only one director: Louise McCaffery who is also the owner.  If it was dissolved since its last accounts this should show in the files but it does not.  Next confirmation filing not due until end of December.

Checked Trustpilot:  address given as  54 Gordon Street G1 3PU but no reviews since 2023.  Can't access email address but have security block on sites not https.

Hope this is of some use.

Okell

What AmEx tells you and what the law requires may be two different things...

A s75 claim allows you to pursue your credit provider when you have a legal claim against the retailer but can't pursue the retailer.

As the pram was bought more than 6 months ago the burden of proof is on the claimant to establish on the balance of probabilities that the pram was in some way faulty or defective when it was bought.  (eg substandard materials; faulty manufacturing process etc etc).

Claimants are usually advised to get some kind of independent report to support their claim.  Obviously a report from an expert in the same industry as the defective product would be best, but there's nothing in law to say that this must be the case.

I don't know any specialist pram repairers, but as @Aylesbury_Duck has already suggested, just get a welding specialist to look at it.  A welder, a car repair shop or even a bike repair shop.  Anything like that.  

AmEx might not like that, but I think they're just trying to discourage you by putting an unreasonably high barrier in front of you.  Get a report from whomever you can and put it to AmEx.  And point out that there's no law to say that the person producing the report must be in a related injury.  Any welder can be an expert here.

But be aware of the warning from @Aylesbury_Duck.  These sort of claims become very difficult if you bought on your credit card but then gave it away as a gift.  s75 might not apply

EssexHebridean

The matter in question here is relating to a weld - therefore I would think a welder would be “a related industry” - you don’t get more “related to” welding than a welder, after all. While I suspect that you maybe right in that they are expecting you to back off from the claim because it’s impossible to find someone suitable, quietly missing their point whilst “technically” ticking their boxes might work.

Hopefully you have it already explained the circumstances of the pram being a gift - if not, I’m sure that you can manage some careful wording to avoid that issue! 

Ultimately, an item is expected to last A reasonable length of time - most people will use a pram for what - 2-3 years assuming that it is one of the type that take a child through from newborn to toddler - so just 12 months in use (albeit 17 months from point of purchase) really doesn’t sound reasonable! 

mksysb

If you are going to a welder to get reports etc. wouldn't it be easier and less stressful just to get it re-welded?

born_again

Was the product not registered with the manufacture?

https://mybabiie.com/pages/register-your-product

DullGreyGuy

Jaybuck said:

Thanks for taking the time to reply Aylesbury_Duck

The have been specific in stating that they must be from the related industry. See below copy from their email.

"The company that conducts such a report must be independent from any party involved in the claim in question and trade within the related industry"

What is the pram made of? 

The law doesn't state how you should prove it is a defect just that its your obligation to (noting others comments that civil law is on "the balance of probabilities" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt" that criminal law is judged on). 

If it's a ferric metal then a bodyshop may be able to give advice, if its aluminium or plastic etc then a different type of fabricator may be more appropriate. 

Jellynailer said:

In law, the retailer is responsible for dealing with the first year of a manufacturer's warranty/guarantee.

Which law @jellynailer? The Consumer Rights Act states its assumed an issue is inherent in the first 6 months of ownership unless the retailer can prove otherwise, not 12 months. 

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Be careful with how you deal with Amex.  I believe S75 only applies if you are the beneficiary.  You buying and gifting the pram to your daughter may be viewed as breaking the chain.  It doesn't sound like Amex are quibbling about it, but I think they may be able to.

This is a concept made up by various "consumer champions", the law itself has no mention of beneficiaries. 

What the law states is that there has to be a direct relationship between Debtor (the OP), Creditor (AmEx) and Supplier without other parties (a previous court case clarified we can turn a blind eye to the supplier merchant services provider). 

The Debtor has to have a contract with the Creditor. The Debtor must have a contract with the Supplier. The Creditor must pay the monies to the Supplier. Where things break down is when you buy from say Amazon Marketplace or a travel agent because the Creditor pays the money to Amazon/Hays Travel but its AnkerDirect or Hilton that is actually the supplier of the goods/services. 

"Beneficiary" has come in when trying to argue the chain hasn't broken... so for example a secondary cardholder buys a sofa for the family home. On the surface the chain is broken because the Debtor doesn't have a contract with the Supplier because it was the secondary cardholder that bought it however some will try to argue that the cardholder is a beneficiary of the sofa and so whilst the paperwork says only Mr bought it in reality Mr & Mrs bought it together so actually the chain isn't broken. 

The Ombudsman has certainly looked favourably in some cases with these types of arguments, especially when backed up by confirmation that they went to the store together, spoke to the sales person together and its just that he got his card out quicker than her that it happened to go on the secondary card.

sheramber

Jellynailer said:

In law, the retailer is responsible for dealing with the first year of a manufacturer's warranty/guarantee.

Bambino and me Ltd is registered with Companies House reg. no. SC694418;  Registered address: Office 18, 259 Summerlee Street, Glasgow, G33 4DB; only one director: Louise McCaffery who is also the owner.  If it was dissolved since its last accounts this should show in the files but it does not.  Next confirmation filing not due until end of December.

Checked Trustpilot:  address given as  54 Gordon Street G1 3PU but no reviews since 2023.  Can't access email address but have security block on sites not https.

Hope this is of some use.

ity is over 2 years since the pram was bought.