LPG standing charge with no supply agreement

dadacool1

i moved into a property with LPG tank at the end of august.  

i immediately switched LPG supplied from FloGas  to another supplier.

I never spoke to or signed anything with FloGas but it seems previous owner passed on my details.   they set up an "account" with me and very deceptive on the phone to make it sound like i had a supply agreement with them in letters they sent. 

Moved to new supplied fine but now received an invoice for standing charges from flogas from the date i moved into the property. am I liable for these charges?  fortunately nothing too outrageous but i dont trust them enough to just pay it.   

anyone any advice?

Brie

You would be liable for the charges from when you moved in until you were with another supplier.  It's the same with gas and electric.  I always think it's a bit odd given that the switch to one supplier to another is all based on computers, not someone coming out and moving a lever to get your LPG/gas from a different pipe.

Ectophile

Brie said:

You would be liable for the charges from when you moved in until you were with another supplier.  It's the same with gas and electric.  I always think it's a bit odd given that the switch to one supplier to another is all based on computers, not someone coming out and moving a lever to get your LPG/gas from a different pipe.

Why do you think it's the same as mains gas and electric?

Deemed charges are specifically set out in the Gas Act and the Electricity Act.  I am not aware of any equivalent for LPG.  In general, you can't be in a contract that you never agreed to. (Though if you use a service from someone, then the courts would expect you to pay for it, whether or not you explicitly agreed to a contract)

Sorting_Hat

You would be liable for the rental of the LPG tank from when you moved in until when the new firm bought the tank.

With LPG its  not done with computers, its done with the physical buying of the tank. The new firm will come along to inspect their new purchase and apply their own information to it.

doodling

Hi,

Sorting_Hat said:

You would be liable for the rental of the LPG tank from when you moved in until when the new firm bought the tank.

[...]

That is not the case in any other walk of life, except mains gas and electricity which are covered by specific primary legislation.

Which specific primary legislation covers this aspect of LPG supply?

Is it the same legislation which prevents the ownership of the tank passing to the new purchaser on the sale of the property - I can't find what legislation  stops that happening either (especially for buried tanks, freestanding tanks are more debateable as they are less fixed to the land)?

matelodave

AFAIK the tank belongs to the supplier and therefore you are renting it - usually if you change suppliers the process is as @Sorting_Hat suggests and the new supplier takes over the tank and maintenance costs from the previous tank owner. Call it a standing charge if you will. 

I suggest that if you had use of the tank during the period between you taking over the property and changing supplier then it's probably not unreasonable for the tank owner to charge for it.

I'm not sure but I'd think that even if a new supplier doesn't take over ownership of the tank then they'd be entitled to check whether the tank is still safe, either by physical examination or checking of certification and maintenance records.

One assumes that if you dont like that arrangement then you ask the tank owner to come and take it away but I guess they'll charge you quite a lot to do it, especially if its buried.

You'll probably have a similar cost for a replacement tank to be installed, but you still wont own it and still have to pay for its rental and maintenance

doodling

Hi,

matelodave said:

AFAIK the tank belongs to the supplier and therefore you are renting it - usually if you change suppliers the process is as @Sorting_Hat suggests and the new supplier takes over the tank and maintenance costs from the previous tank owner. Call it a standing charge if you will. 

I suggest that if you had use of the tank during the period between you taking over the property and changing supplier then it's probably not unreasonable for the tank owner to charge for it.

I'm not sure but I'd think that even if a new supplier doesn't take over ownership of the tank then they'd be entitled to check whether the tank is still safe, either by physical examination or checking of certification and maintenance records.

One assumes that if you dont like that arrangement then you ask the tank owner to come and take it away but I guess they'll charge you quite a lot to do it, especially if its buried.

You'll probably have a similar cost for a replacement tank to be installed, but you still wont own it and still have to pay for its rental and maintenance

All of the above might be true but if it is, it is a circumstance created by some legislation relating to LPG tanks, or an agreement made during the conveyancing process.  It would be surprising if any legislation was as skewed in favour of LPG suppliers as you imply.

In the absence of legislation or agreement, ownership of the tank would transfer to the purchaser of the land (depending on how much a part of the land the tank had become) and the new owner would have zero obligation to the LPG supplier (apart perhaps from asking them to collect the tank if it is insufficiently part of the land for ownership to have transferred as part of the sale).  People are saying that that normal legal process doesn't apply to LPG tanks - why?

Sorting_Hat

Its remarkable how often little thought goes into the LPG tank lurking at that house people want to buy.

The tank belongs to the LPG firm. It is rented from said LPG firm it is not part of the sale of the house as it is not owned by the seller/vendor of the house.
Using the gas in that tank means you are using the equipment that belongs to the LPG firm.
It has to be rented.

Having said all that.

There are some tanks that are privately owned, BUT they are much less common.
The LPG firms are very aware of all the tanks they own and no one is allowed to deal with these tanks other than the owning firm.

The legislation for LPG  is the 2009 CMA order, referred to as "the order" by firms in correspondence.