How best to deal with unreasonable and selfish neighbours...

Tabasco_Green

I am currently having issues with some rather unreasonable neighbours, and I would welcome members views on the best course of action in dealing with the problem.

 The couple in question bought the bungalow next door to me, gutted it and rebuilt in its place a rather large and overbearing house.

Obviously, this was done with planning permission, to which I did not object, as the submitted plans, by local standards, were reasonable – just.

However, there then followed 18 months of the usual noise and disruption made worse with scaffolding oversailing the boundary into my garden and major excavations near the boundary, both without the necessary access or party wall agreements. I tried to challenge these issues at the time but the solicitor I spoke to advised against doing anything as this could be seen as antagonist/confrontational with negative implications for both parties.

In addition, I was constantly removing building detritus from my garden and the roofers managed to smash an outside waste pipe on my property while I was out. I approached the builders as soon as I realised only to be met with denial, grunts and no apology, so I fixed it at my expense.

I have also yet to formally meet the owners; they have made no attempt to speak to me and so I have tired, on several occasions, to approach them only to be ignored and they remain very much aloof. Indeed, further work has been undertaken by builders on weekends, including Sundays, but sufficiently sporadic to make raising the issue with the district council all but impossible.

I’m all for ‘live and let live’, but this past Sunday yet another contractor was installing paneling between their house and my concrete fence using a baton attached with screws and raw plugs. Neither he nor the neighbours had asked if this was ok and so I told him to please remove it and to install a separate post on their side of the boundary which he refused to do. Voices were raised, but he did not back-down and so the paneling has now been fully installed.

This may appear petty, but for me this has been the last straw, and I want to do something to make these selfish idiots realise that its not all about them and they can’t simply do what they want without following the appropriate steps or at the least showing some common decency!

However, at the same time I don’t want to end up with a six-figure legal bill and feature in yet another ‘neighbours fall out and face huge legal bill’ tabloid headline…

So should I simply ignore all that has happened and accept the situation, which is unlikely to ever change, or devise a means of delivering a ‘shot across their bow’ without dire consequences?...

ButterCheese

The damaged waste pipe and the tacking onto your fence should have been upheld by you at the time.  Now that you've let it go, it will be very difficult to go back.  You will have to confront your neighbours i.e knock on their door and get them to rectify it.  It's not pleasant but it is a resonable thing to do and can't be categorised as "causing trouble".  The solicitor probably doesn't want the hassle for what is to them a very small issue that they won't make much money from (apart from charging you loads for sending letters).

In my opinion, if you let them get away with things like that then they will continue to not care about other people's property.

As to the rest, they've got planning permission and are allowed to have tradespeople round.  They are also allowed to ignore you or grunt at you or generally not be very nice.  It's unpleasant I know, but it's just bad luck I'm afraid

Brie

Keep a diary with every little thing that happens, how often you have to clear up their debris, when there is noise on a Sunday.  Pictures of things as much before as possible and after.  The council will need to take notice eventually.  

You could of course take down your cement fence and rebuilding it half an inch away.....just a thought.

ThisIsWeird

AvonAndy said:

I am currently having issues with some rather unreasonable neighbours, and I would welcome members views on the best course of action in dealing with the problem. The couple in question bought the bungalow next door to me, gutted it and rebuilt in its place a rather large and overbearing house. Tough poo. Obviously, this was done with planning permission, to which I did not object, as the submitted plans, by local standards, were reasonable – just. So, fair enough. However, there then followed 18 months of the usual noise and disruption made worse with scaffolding oversailing the boundary into my garden and major excavations near the boundary, both without the necessary access or party wall agreements. You would have had to provide permission for the scaffolding, or - if they had no option - they'd require a court order. I presume neither occured? Tough poo. I tried to challenge these issues at the time but the solicitor I spoke to advised against doing anything as this could be seen as antagonist/confrontational with negative implications for both parties. Good advice. In addition, I was constantly removing building detritus from my garden and the roofers managed to smash an outside waste pipe on my property while I was out. Ok, finally we are getting to the "that's not ok", part. I approached the builders as soon as I realised only to be met with denial, grunts and no apology, so I fixed it at my expense. Oooh, silly. I have also yet to formally meet the owners; they have made no attempt to speak to me and so I have tired, on several occasions, to approach them only to be ignored and they remain very much aloof. "Formally"? But, fair do's - they sound like privilaged arrisols, with some aspiration, wot with their fancy huge house where a bungie used to be. At least you know they are likely to be k-nobs. Indeed, further work has been undertaken by builders on weekends, including Sundays, but sufficiently sporadic to make raising the issue with the district council all but impossible. We all have our cross to bear. I’m all for ‘live and let live’, hmmmm, really? but this past Sunday yet another contractor was installing paneling between their house and my concrete fence using a baton attached with screws and raw plugs. Neither he nor the neighbours had asked if this was ok and so I told him to please remove it and to install a separate post on their side of the boundary which he refused to do. Phew - you recorded all this as evidence? Great! Voices were raised, but he did not back-down and so the paneling has now been fully installed.This may appear petty, but for me this has been the last straw, and I want to do something to make these selfish idiots realise that its not all about them and they can’t simply do what they want without following the appropriate steps or at the least showing some common decency! However, at the same time I don’t want to end up with a six-figure legal bill and feature in yet another ‘neighbours fall out and face huge legal bill’ tabloid headline…So should I simply ignore all that has happened and accept the situation, which is unlikely to ever change, or devise a means of delivering a ‘shot across their bow’ without dire consequences?...

Replies in bold.

I have to say, around 80% of this sounds 'par for the course', but some aspects are rightly too much.

I fear you may have missed t'boat, tho', and will now find it hard to address.

Q1 - do you have Legal Protection in your house insurance?

Q2 - do you have any manner of evidencing that they damaged your 'waste pipe', left 'detritus', and you told them to C&D when they wanted to screw a batten to your house?

Assuming your houses are detached, then they (the builders) shouldn't have touched your property without permission. So, you contact your LegProt, ask their advice, and then - with their guidance - send your lovely new neighbour a letter asking them to remove the batten, and make good to original, the holes in my house. Give them a couple of weeks to respond. If they don't, then get a builder in to rip it off, make good the damage, pay up - and then send your neighb the bill. If they fail, go MoneyClaim.org. It should be fun.

You should have done this at 'smashed waste pipe' stage.

In essence, much of the horribleness you have had to put up with is unavoidable with such work, but it would have been nice if the neighb had introduced themselves first, and explained what was going to happen. Along with a "Please let us know if there's any problems - here's our number."

But, they didn't. So they are arrisols. You now owe them nothing as new arrivals to the 'hood, but need to separate what is 'annoying' to what is 'legitimate grievance'. For the latter, feel free to hit them as hard as you want - they deserve little else.

Tabasco_Green

Thanks to all for replying, especially the detailed response from ‘This is Weird’.

Your answers have definitely helped and are much appreciated as it is sometimes difficult to separate emotion and the real problems…

As noted also by ‘This is Weird’ much, if not all of this, could have been easily avoided if the arrisols in question had they taken the trouble to introduce themselves, but they didn’t and in short have actively avoided doing so.

I will definitely move forward with the legal action suggested regarding the fence as my home insurance does include cover and I’ll see where that goes.

I do have some pictures as evidence and a small pile of detritus, but not the smashed waste pipe unfortunately. 

Regrettably in a fit of pique I also smashed the artificial slates that were dropped in my garden and threw the pieces over the fence, although the site was such a mess I doubt it was noticed…

In regard to the C&D with the fence I think I made my position quite clear.

Having got no where talking normally I shouted at the bloke so loudly that I was probably heard in the next county so there should have been no doubt in his mind as to what was to be done!

Shouting at someone may be childish and could possibly be used against me as everyone’s feeling are so precious these days, but I’m not loosing any sleep over it…

I think it’s also worth mentioning, for the benefit of others, that my ignorance of the detailed contained within the party wall act was to my cost and therefore every home owner should familiarise themselves with the basic tenants of this document so they know where they stand when ‘Bodget and Scarper’ start knocking 7 bells out of next door... 

ThisIsWeird

Perfectly understandable to have become cross at such intransigence, and I doubt it will have caused any harm in this case. In general, tho', when you have 'delicate' issues arising between neighbours, it's best if you can hold back even more than you would 'in real life' - be uber-reasonable, calm, measured. It'll serve to highlight the difference between you, should the matter escalate.

Pleased you have LP. Stick to the facts when you call them; by all means explain it's part of a pattern, but don't labour the point, and try not to 'emote' Then cut to the chase; "They have bolted a fence post to my house wall, drilling a number of holes. I told the builder to stop, and he refused. I wish to oblige them to remove it and make good the damage..." sort of thing.

Please keep us posted - it would be useful to know how this pans out. 

Kiran

Are the new owners developers by any chance or are they definitely moving in once work is complete? 

ThisIsWeird

I should have asked - did there used to be a post on this wall, and this is a replacement, or is it new? 
For the former, they may possibly have gained an easement. For the latter, it's not acceptable without permission.

Tabasco_Green

I don’t know if the new owners are developers.

However, given their appalling attitude they could be. On the other hand they are a ‘young family’ and seem to be going to a lot of extra expense compared to if it was simply a flip, but I guess only time will tell…

And just to clarify the detail regarding the fence; one baton is attached to the side of their house and the other to my 5 foot concrete fence post.

In regard to any existing agreement there isn’t one as the previous owners simply had a mesh covered metal frame which was wedged in place and removed when the narrow strip of grass on their side of the property needed cutting .

Of course I never had any issues with the old neighbours - they were fantastic, but unfortunately both passed away…

This is a picture ‘during construction’…

(Image removed by Forum Team)

ThisIsWeird

AvonAndy said:

I don’t know if the new owners are developers.However, given their appalling attitude they could be. On the other hand they are a ‘young family’ and seem to be going to a lot of extra expense compared to if it was simply a flip, but I guess only time will tell…And just to clarify the detail regarding the fence; one baton is attached to the side of their house and the other to my 5 foot concrete fence post.In regard to any existing agreement there isn’t one as the previous owners simply had a mesh covered metal frame which was wedged in place and removed when the narrow strip of grass on their side of the property needed cutting .Of course I never had any issues with the old neighbours - they were fantastic, but unfortunately both passed away…This is a picture ‘during construction’…

(Image removed by Forum Team)

Ah... I have to 'fess I thought they'd screwed into your house wall.

Although 'technically' they may still have done wrong by attaching to your concrete post, it isn't such a large issue. 

If this is to support a gate, I'd expect them to hinge it from their side. Mind you, your post will now get the slamming-shut end... If it's just a fixed fence panel, then I think, on balance, I wouldn't bother about it tbh.

That is def your fence, and sits on your side of the known boundary line? In which case, they shouldn't have touched it - 'least not without your permission. If, however, it sits 'on' the boundary - straddles it - it could be considered 'party', in which case you have shared rights, but they should still have 'asked'.

It's all very presumptuous and inconsiderate of them, yes, and they could have avoided any risk of annoyance by bedding down their own post alongside yours - or just by asking. But not as big an issue as I'd first thought.

I hope your LP will oblige them to fit their own post now - that'll teach them to be so lax.

swingaloo

To be honest now I have seen the photos I think you may be making a lot of fuss over something trivial. Looking at the state of the garden its possible that a new family moving in and spending so much money on the property may mean they will also make the front nicer which is a bonus for the street.

Sorry but it reads to me as if you have had lovely elderly neighbours who have sadly died and now you dont feel  these new younger people are acceptable neighbours. You are definitely getting off on the wrong foot here. Perhaps they have been thoughtless but this has all the signs of escalating and could become a neighbour war for future years which will be awful to live with. If it does become an unpleasant place to live you can bet the new neighbours will not be the ones to throw in the towel and move.

Look at the from the other side, you say they are aloof. Perhaps that is because the builders have told them that the next door neighbour is a bad tempered complainer who has called them selfish idiots. 
Perhaps they are but it would have been far more diplomatic to approach them properly at the beginning rather than have raised voices with the builders.

Regrettably in a fit of pique I also smashed the artificial slates that were dropped in my garden and threw the pieces over the fence, although the site was such a mess I doubt it was noticed…

In regard to the C&D with the fence I think I made my position quite clear.

Having got no where talking normally I shouted at the bloke so loudly that I was probably heard in the next county so there should have been no doubt in his mind as to what was to be done!

Shouting at someone may be childish and could possibly be used against me as everyone’s feeling are so precious these days, but I’m not loosing any sleep over it…

Perhaps the people moving in now think they are moving next door to a nightmare neighbour and their backs will already be up!

Is there perhaps a touch of jealousy here?