Parking Group Notice - Dalby Way/Coulby Newham Middlesbrough

GreenGorilla101

Hi All

New to the forum but have been reading many helpfule posts.  Before proceeding I'd welcome a sense check though.

This is the Notice to Keeper:-  



Signage at the CarPark is visible, and the car was parked almost in front of one sign so no argument over visibility.  The car park is free for customers and on the condition that you do not leave site.

I think I have two arguments here:
1. The first is that the driver is said have not remained on site.  The car park is situated immediately in front of a couple of shops.  Down the far side is a hedge, then a foot parth, and then a McDonald's.  That is where the driver went, and is seen on the additional photos as heading there.  The signage does not, in my opinion, make it clear that the 'private car park' is for the patrons of specific establishments:




The pic above shows the path the driver took from the private car park (to the left) to McDonalds on the right.  Note the road is "Dalby Way".  I don't think that it's easy to determine which shops the users of the car park are meant to be visiting.

2.  The other argument that I think I have available is that the car park operator sent a the Notice to Keeper.  The NTK is dated 02/10/2024 but the event occured on 09/09/2024.  The notice does not refer to the POFA.  However, my (limited) understanding is that the notice does not meet the POA requirements, and it has been issued outside of the 14 day time frame.  Hence, they cannot rely on the POFA to seek the charges from the keeper.

My intention is to use the template appeal to avoid making and admissions as to the identity ofthe driver; to highlight the notice falls short of the POFA, and that the parking notices are in any event unclear as the car park is designated for the use of customers for Dalby Way which to all intents apears to be where the McDonalds is situated. 

(Technically, the McDonald's address is not Dalby way, but you wouldn't know that without searching for their postal address)

Any comments greatfully received!  any many thanks in advance!

LDast

Was a Notice to Driver (NtD) affixed to the windscreen? If not, simply appeal, only as the Keeper, with the following which basically tells PG to go sit on a sharp stick and rotate:

I am the Keeper of the vehicle and I dispute your 'parking charge'. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

As your Notice to Keeper (NtK) does not fully comply with ALL the requirements of PoFA 2012, you are unable to hold the Keeper of the vehicle liable for the charge. Partial or even substantial compliance is not sufficient. There will be no admission as to who was driving and no inference or assumptions can be drawn. Parking Group has relied on contract law allegations of breach against the driver only.

The Keeper cannot be presumed or inferred to have been the driver, nor pursued under some twisted interpretation of the law of agency. Your NtK can only hold the driver liable. Parking Group have no hope at POPLA, so you are urged to save us both a complete waste of time and cancel the PCN.

Coupon-mad

Or just appeal denying that the driver left the site.  They won't be able to prove it to POPLA.

fisherjim

They don't know the drivers name or address but are convinced they left site, sounds as daft as it is, and I wonder if they have studied the "toothbrush case" thoroughly!

GreenGorilla101

They have provided a link to stills from CCTV that show the driver left the car park and went to the McDonald's.   However, in my view, I don't think it's clear from the signage that the McDonald's is not part of the site.  They haven't made it clear on the signage which shops the car park is meant to serve, and which shops aren't included.  The risk may that they try to argue the layout of the area sufficiently denotes which shops are served by the car park, and which aren't.  McD is on the other side of a hedge which I guess is meant to be a boundary.  But if that was the case - they shouldn't have a footpath runing throught the middle of it, from the car park, to the McD's.

GreenGorilla101

LDast said:

Was a Notice to Driver (NtD) affixed to the windscreen? If not, simply appeal, only as the Keeper, with the following which basically tells PG to go sit on a sharp stick and rotate:

That's right.  No Notice to Driver.  Only the Notice to Keeper.  Thanks for the proposed response.

Coupon-mad

GreenGorilla101 said:

This is the Notice to Keeper:-  



The NTK is dated 02/10/2024 but the event occured on 09/09/2024.  The notice does not refer to the POFA.  However, my (limited) understanding is that the notice does not meet the POA requirements, and it has been issued outside of the 14 day time frame.  Hence, they cannot rely on the POFA to seek the charges from the keeper.

My intention is to use the template appeal to avoid making and admissions as to the identity ofthe driver; to highlight the notice falls short of the POFA

Non-POFA but they have lied near the end there, saying that they can pursue you.

They cannot.

lewyharvey

Just a heads up on this thread. I got an identical penalty notice a couple of months after this. It was the exact same place in exactly the same circumstances as I went through the gap to McDonald's. I ignored all correspondence from them after reading this thread. They are complete and utter lies stating that there is a CCJ against me on 3 different letters. I have checked online and paid for a credit check and there are no records of a CCJ against me. They just bully people into paying. My charge went from the initial £100 to £287! They will never get this from me and can send as many bullying letters as they want. This has been going on for over a year now and there has been no impact to my credit rating as there are no records of CCJ they lied about their client obtaining. 

Coupon-mad

lewyharvey said:

Just a heads up on this thread. I got an identical penalty notice a couple of months after this. It was the exact same place in exactly the same circumstances as I went through the gap to McDonald's. I ignored all correspondence from them after reading this thread. They are complete and utter lies stating that there is a CCJ against me on 3 different letters. I have checked online and paid for a credit check and there are no records of a CCJ against me. They just bully people into paying. My charge went from the initial £100 to £287! They will never get this from me and can send as many bullying letters as they want. This has been going on for over a year now and there has been no impact to my credit rating as there are no records of CCJ they lied about their client obtaining. 

There is a CCJ if it's £287 but you might have got away with it not showing on your record.

lewyharvey

There are definitely no CCJ's the £287 figure was the second letter which included costs long before CCj action was mentioned. 

prowla

lewyharvey said:

Just a heads up on this thread. I got an identical penalty notice a couple of months after this. It was the exact same place in exactly the same circumstances as I went through the gap to McDonald's. I ignored all correspondence from them after reading this thread. They are complete and utter lies stating that there is a CCJ against me on 3 different letters. I have checked online and paid for a credit check and there are no records of a CCJ against me. They just bully people into paying. My charge went from the initial £100 to £287! They will never get this from me and can send as many bullying letters as they want. This has been going on for over a year now and there has been no impact to my credit rating as there are no records of CCJ they lied about their client obtaining. 

FYI, it wasn't a penalty notice.

Regarding the CCJ, there's a process they have to follow to get one and you would've had to receive a notice from the courts informing you of the case proceeding (don't ignore that!).