LG TV, Not fit for purpose.

0rchidia

65” LG TV

2023.  

3rd June - Bought from LG direct for £587 delivered  and left in box.

8th October - Stopped working.  Collected by LG engineers from 70 miles away.

8th November - Returned & told was working fine.

27th November – Stopped working, again.

I requested a replacement, was told it needed Engineers Report.

12th December - Callout finally made, TV taken away by above engineers.

21st December – Returned, and told there was nothing wrong with it.

 2024

August – Screen started glitching randomly, it would just switch off, but then be back on within minutes.

16th September – It just died, the screen was lit, but nothing else.

Contacted a very well known local TV repair company, they checked it out and advised. Quote:- 

The LCD screen has failed, a replacement screen is available at high cost (£558.64 + Labour + VAT).  Not economical to repair.

 Sent all above details to LG customer services, including copy of Invoice from local company.

 Received back:-Thank you for reaching out to us. I appreciate you providing details about your ongoing issue with the TV. I understand how frustrating it can be to deal with these concerns, especially when you've previously had it assessed and repaired.

Since the unit was already inspected under (Local Company) service and the TV was deemed beyond economical repair due to the high cost of replacing the screen, I'm sorry to inform you that we cannot offer a replacement or refund for the unit at this time since the unit is already beyond the warranty period when it is inspected at (Local Company) service. However, we can provide a chargeable repair for £939.00.

As a gesture of goodwill, once the repair service is completed, we can reimburse you with 30% of the total amount charged for the service.

If you do have a spare moment, I would be tremendously grateful if you could complete my survey below.   <<<<<. I would have been locked up had I given my ‘opinions’.

 

Do I have any rights over this issue? If so what do I do next?  Any advice will be gratefully received, Thanks.

Baldytyke88

I had a lawn mower go faulty within the first year, they replaced the part and then just inside 2 years the same part went faulty again.

They replaced the mower. I was a little shocked, but I believe it was inherently faulty from the factory.

powerful_Rogue

Did you make it clear you was claiming under consumer rights and not the warranty?

The term is also not of satisfactory quality rather than not for for purpose.

0rchidia

powerful_Rogue said:

Did you make it clear you was claiming under consumer rights and not the warranty?

The term is also not of satisfactory quality rather than not for for purpose.

No, I didn't, because I wasn't aware I could do that, so thank you will try again.  I will use the 'satisfactory' in future too.  I'm in my 80th year, and never had such issues before.

Okell

Assuming that the LG "entity" you complained to and who repaired it the first time was the same LG "entity" that sold it to you, then under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (legislation.gov.uk) you were entitled to reject the TV for a full refund when it failed for the second time on 27th November.  You had no need to provide an engineer's report because the legislation deems that any faults within 6 months of delivery were present at the time of sale, unless the seller can prove otherwise.  So you didn't need to prove anything, it was who LG had to prove it was ok when they sold it to you.

Unfortunately - as @powerful_Rogue suggets - you might have confused the issue and muddied the waters if you did not make it clear at the time that you were exercising your statutory rights under the legislation rather than any warranty rights.

However, the legislation doesn't actually say that you have to inform the seller that you are exercising your statutory rights rather than any warranty rights, so you can try going back to the arm of LG that sold it to you and tell them that as the first repair attempt failed within 6 months of delivery, then under s24(5)(a) and s19(14) of the legislation linked to above, you were entitled to full refund and LG were wrong to refuse your request and were wrong to demand you provide an engineer's report.

You'll probably need to be persistent - but quote the law to them and see how they respond.

Of course, if you bought from "LG (Europe Sales) Limited" and you complained to and the repairs were carried out by "LG (UK Repairs) Limited" you will have an uphill battle and may very well not succeed.  But if you don't try...  (I've made up those two LG company names for illustrative purposes only).

Top Tip:  If a consumer product fails within 6 months of delivery, you should always exercise your statutory rights against the seller under the legislation - unless any warranty you have gives you better protection - and it will be easier if you make that clear to the seller at the outset.  If the product fails a second time within 6 months of delivery, you can get a full refund.

Okell

0rchidia said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Did you make it clear you was claiming under consumer rights and not the warranty?

The term is also not of satisfactory quality rather than not for for purpose.

No, I didn't, because I wasn't aware I could do that, so thank you will try again.  I will use the 'satisfactory' in future too.  I'm in my 80th year, and never had such issues before.

[We cross posted while I was writing my previous comment]

The legislation doesn't say that you have to tell them that you are exercising your statutory rights.

If I were you - and assuming only a single LG company is involved - I'd go back to them quoting the legislation in my previous post and tell them that as the TV failed for a second time (after a failed first repair attempt) within 6 months of delivery, then you were entitled straight away to a full refund.

Quote the law and see what they say.

If you don't ask...

NB - Were there two different LG companies  - one selling and one repairing - or just one?  When you initially complained the first time, did you complain to the seller?

0rchidia

Thank you for all this info Okell, very much appreciated.  Sorry for so long to respond, have other issues with life to deal with too.

I am contacting the LG company I bought from, the same website I am dealing with, and have been dealing with all along - or trying to.  I have all the emails to and from since the first breakdown, and looking back on them, they have always just fobbed me off.  I know this is rather long, but this is what happened from the 27th November (2nd) breakdown of TV.  I never even thought of asking for a full refund being unaware of my full rights. 

Date : 04/12/2023 15:11 45 Type of Inquiry : Customer Service Dear Sir or Madam, REFERENCE: LG Online - LG tv I purchased a LG tv from LG Online. At the point of purchase I paid £587.00. Bought and fully paid for on 2nd June 2023, delivered following day. Stopped working 8th October - Finally repaired on the 8th November. Power Unit replaced. Lasted for less than 3 weeks 27th November, stopped working again, exactly same issues as before - this TV is faulty and needs replacing, not fit for purpose. I requested that this TV was replaced, it obviously has issues, this was the reply I received today:- "Upon reviewing your repair history, I can see that the last completed repair on November 8th was for your LG 65UQ91006LA TV, and it is with a power issues. I understand that you believe the TV has stopped working again and is causing inconvenience to your husband, who is invalid. To address your concerns, we would require an engineer's report to assess the situation further. As there has been only one repair completed so far, I have forwarded your request to our relevant team for repairs. They will evaluate the best course of action to resolve the issue. While I understand your request for a replacement, based on our service policy, I can only request to book another repair since the unit is still under warranty and the previous repair was performed within the last 90 days. Rest assured that I have fully documented your request for a replacement as a consumer, and it will be referenced under [CNU231201799868]. Our relevant repair team will review this request and determine whether it would be more appropriate to obtain an engineer's report first. This report is necessary to facilitate a possible request for a replacement or refund for the TV." I do not want to wait for an engineers report, I just want a TV that wont break down. The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract I have with LG Online that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality. As you are in breach of contract and I've owned the product between 31 days and 6 months, I am within my statutory rights to ask for it to be replaced. I await confirmation that you will provide the remedy set out above within 14 days of the date of this letter. Yours faithfully, ******

Agent Response

Date : 05/12/2023 Dear ******, I hope this email finds you well. I understand that you have been experiencing significant issues with your recently purchased LG TV, and I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused. I acknowledge your concern about the purchased and delivery date of the TV, and I completely understand your desire to have the TV replaced, considering the recurring faults it has experienced. However, as per our service policy, we require an engineer's report to further assess the situation and determine the appropriate course of action. This report will help us evaluate whether a replacement or refund is the most suitable solution for you. Rest assured, I have documented your request for a replacement, and it has been assigned reference number [CNU231201799868]. Our relevant repair team has carefully reviewed your case and considers that the best course of action is to book a repair, which has already been raised to the relevant team. Once booked, our service team will reach out to you to provide the service details. I understand that waiting for an engineer's report may not be the ideal situation for you, given the previous repair and your desire for a TV that functions reliably. However, obtaining this report is necessary to ensure that we address the root cause of the issue and prevent any further inconvenience to you. Regarding the Consumer Rights Act 2015, I understand you are entitled to goods that are as described, fit for purpose, and of satisfactory quality. As such, we understand your request for a replacement within the statutory rights timeframe. However, I have also checked our return policy, and it shows that you can only ask to return the appliance/device within the 30-day timeframe from the delivery date. To be able to review this, I kindly request a copy of the original receipt or delivery receipt. You can send the photos or PDF documents through our LG WhatsApp Number at +44 07970150557 or start a new email inquiry at https://www.lg.com/uk/support/email and attach the photo there, as we are unable to receive image attachments in email replies. Please provide the contact reference: [GCU231204099590] when contacting us via WhatsApp. I apologise for any misunderstanding or inconvenience caused, and I want to assure you that we are actively working towards a resolution. We will make every effort to provide the remedy you have requested within 14 days of the date of this email. Thank you for your cooperation and kind understanding. If you have further question or inquiry, please do not hesitate to contact us back by clicking the "More Questions" button at the end. Also, I would like to let you know that there is a short survey based on the assistance I provided today. Regards LG Electronics UK Helpdesk

Okell

@0rchidia -  ok.

I'm busy at the moment but will try to draft soemthing for you to send to LG later today or tomorrow.

See what other posters may have to add too.

Okell

0rchidia said:

65” LG TV

2023.  

3rd June - Bought from LG direct for £587 delivered  and left in box.

8th October - Stopped working.  Collected by LG engineers from 70 miles away.

8th November - Returned & told was working fine.

27th November – Stopped working, again.

I requested a replacement, was told it needed Engineers Report.

12th December - Callout finally made, TV taken away by above engineers.

21st December – Returned, and told there was nothing wrong with it...

Hi 0rchidia

I'm just re-reading the thread and I've just realised something I missed the first time.

Are you saying that the TV failed again after the first repair and within 6 months of purchase, but LG took it away to inspect it and returned it to you saying there was nothing wrong with it?

Did you happen to ask them why - if there was nothing wrong with it - it had stopped working again, and if you did, could they give you a satisfactory explanation?  I don't know what the fault was that you observed, but do you think LG might have fixed it but told you that they hadn't?

As I explained previously, if the TV had failed twice within 6 months after one replacement or attempt at repair, then you would have had claim for a full refund.  I didn't realise on first reading that although it had failed twice as far as you were concerned, LG couldn't find anything wrong with it the second time.  (My mistake).

This makes things a little more complicated...

Now that it has failed again after more than 6 months from purchase, the onus is on you to "prove" on the balance of probabilities that there was something "inherently" wrong or faulty with the TV when it was delivered to you.  This fault could be something like a faulty or sub-standard or poor quality component, a fault in the manufacturing process, or just poor design of the TV.  It wouldn't need to be a fault that was readily apparent to you when it was delivered, but you need to prove that it was there at delivery.

Usually people are told to get an independent engineer's report supporting their claim that the TV was inherently faulty.  You've mentioned that you got a well-known TV repair firm to produce a report and that they said that the screen had failed and that it was not economical to repair.  Did they give any opinion as to the most likely reason why the screen had failed?  eg faulty component, manufactruing fault, poor design etc.  If they didn't, can you ask them again whatt they think was the likely cause of failure?

If you can establish that it was inherently faulty at delivery, you can reject it for a refund because one attempt at repair has already failed.  But because it's over 6 months since delivery, LG will be entitled to deduct from your refund an amount to reflect the use you've had of the TV.  How much can they deduct?  How long is a ball of string?  The customary practice appears to be to offer a pro rata refund based on an expected useful life of the TV of 6 years.  But you could haggle.

So it's a bit more complex than I may first have led you to believe - apologies

I'll tag another forum member (@the_lunatic_is_in_my_head ) to see what he or she thinks of the problem.  They tend to be more pragmatic and sensible than me and not miss things from the first post...

0rchidia

OK.....  Thank you so much for your advice in here, wish I had come in on the first instance!

On the first breakdown they replaced the Power Unit and told me that had failed and it was in good working order now.

It was LG that wanted to get their engineer to do a report after the second breeakdown on the 27th November, they took it away on the 12th December, and returned it 10 days later saying there was nothing wrong with it.  I said I didn't want the TV back, it was more trouble than it was worth, but they refused a replacement.

The TV repair company that currently has the TV, and said the screen is gone.... 
He told me that his workshop has been packed out with larger TVs with damaged screens.  They are making them too large, and the screens too thin, quite often, in his opinion,  the screens get damaged by initial delivery, they are so fragile.  Anything over 55" with a thin screen is a risky buy, and you need to get those with a thicker screen.  In reality, he feels this is a manufacturing fault due to public demand for larger and thinner TV's. 

  

Okell

Did your repair engineer say that in a written report or anything?

If he didn't, would you be happy to ask him if he could?  Explain you want it to support a claim against LG.

He might want to charge for a further report.  If he does just ask how much.  You might be able to get it back from LG if you can persuade them that the fault was "inherent".

NB  -  if you can't persuade LG that they are wrong and that you have a good claim, your only other real option is to issue a court claim against them in what is colloquially known as the "small claims court".  A claimant can't claim legal fees in small claims so most people do it themselves as it's meant to be a user-friendly service.  It's not something I've doen myself but I'm sure there's still some degree of hassle and stress involved in the process, and there is never any gurantee that you would win.  So if you are both quite elderly and your husband is disabled it might be something that you don't want to do.

In which case the less painful option might simply be to bite the bullet and to accept whatever LG are offering.  (I presume that if you give them any suggestion that you might sue them, they'll withdraw their offer).

If you paid for the TV by credit card you might also have what's called a s75 claim against your bank.  That should be a bit easier than making a court claim, but is still likely to be a hassle that you don't want in your circumstances.

And whether you go for a court claim or a s75 claim, either is likely to take several months.

I'm not suggesting you accept LG's offer, I'm just letting you know your options.  Of course, if you and your husband are game for some confrontation...

You could also always ask CAB for advice

Wait and see if others have different ideas from me.