Mum keep sending money to mail fraudsters-any ideas?

callow

If she enjoys the thrill of competions perhaps you could get her a subscription to a reputable competetion magazine, such as http://www.justcomps.co.uk/magazines/index.html

At least she would have a chance at a decent prize.

bunty109

I was going to suggest magazine competitions. For the money she is spending she could buy all the weekly magazines and stacks of stamps and enter away. If she enters enough competitions she is bound to start winning things!

She does sound a bit lonely though. How about taking her to bingo? Maybe if she enjoys it you could wean her off the letters and a trip to bingo with erh might help you broach the subject in another light?

waddy80

Have only just seen this thread but would like to share my experience of dealing with these fraudsters.

I work for a high street bank and an elderly customer of ours came in requesting an increase in his overdraft. After asking why he produced one of these letters explaining he had won and needed to send a cheque. I wasn't really sure what to do (Can't increase o/d for gambling purposes) and tried to explain to him it was a fraud. He said well i've got £10,000 coming next week. When I looked back on his statements he had spent over £3000 in 6 months on these scams. I told him I had to refer his request to the branch manager, and could he come back the next day with the letter confirming the £10,000 win.

He came back the next day with 20+ of the letters, from all over the world, canada, nigeria, some postmarked uk but he was sending payments to canada etc...

We did not increase the overdraft and actually called the local police. I explained what was happening and although there is little they could do, they did go and see the customer informally and have a chat.

I don't think it really helped, as he wrote the cheques anyway. In the end he kept writing the cheques and had his cheque book taken off him. He is now continually over his overdraft limit, and under a repayment plan.

We still have people coming in every week saying they have won something and will have a lot of money coming, and have to tell them that it is a scam. We now take a copy of the letters and send them on to our fraud dept and the police, although as I said I don't know that it does any good.

Could you ask your local police or age concern etc to talk to her? They will know about these scams, and may be able to convince her.

bookduck

Firstly I like to thank you all for your comments, ideas and help.

My work day was very busy today (new Years Eve). I phone up my "obedient servant" but only had 3 uk letter addresses. They did seem interested. When I phoned up the second time with the fourth address the HMRC officer said that what exactly was I suspicious of and was not interested at all did not even take the address.

Trading Standards were very good and surprisingly helpful. They even offered to contact her and with a possible visit to tell her that this may very well be a scam and will investigate further.

My mum called me after work which was strange, but it is New Years eve, and pestered me to visit her. I was a bit hesitant, but I said I would and would be there in around 2 hours time. Phoned her up as I got off and asked if she wanted a takeaway. Got to her house and after walking in the door straight away got accused of taking/hiding her stamps and envelopes. Then she asked my why I had contacted the MPS and was stopping her letters and that she is not having her son push her around. (MPS just took too long to get into action and I think must have written to her!!!) Yelling at me told me she is going to have the block to be taken off - by this time I had just got my coat off and placed it onto a chair, but seconds later I had my coat on and was walking hastily out the door saying the words "I'm off", hearing my name being called/cursed? as I left.

I did not want to hear from her, so disconnected my phone and turned the mobile off. 3 hours later she was pressing my front door entry button, crying asking me if I felt sorry for her. Being totally xxxx off, was very forthright and honest told her I was not, the crying/sobbing quickly stopped.

It turned out she also went into town that day and visited the Bank and post office again

In answer to Tiff and Loobysaver (#9,#15): I've tried this in the past showing her newspaper items. My mums are always 'genuine'. or the paper is 'making up stories', or I do not know what I am talking about. A few months before being housebound went regularly to bingo sometimes 5 days a week until the end where the mail started and funds became in short supply. I tried to get her into a day center more than once a week, but she hates it as she is not able to do her own thing. Pleaded with me not to send her there twice a week.

Wolfhouse, Callow, Bunty109 (#10,#23.#24): "but just always wondered if the same addiction couldn't be redirected to other things like entering free web competitions" - I'm no expert either, I agree and see your point however she does not get a buzz from this. She will not enter the National Lottery or a free lottery as she says she has no chance of winning. Will go for free bingo though? I can't work it out either.

ailuro2 (#11) she is 83 years old and computer literacy is not her thing. Ho hobbies/interests either except bingo and tv

Benny24(#13) I has do do with shame and secrecy. I feel if everyone knows then she would have nothing to loose and would pay unhindered. You might be right that this may be the only way. I ideally wanted the MPS just to stop the post being delivered without informing her and let the problem drop away.

margaretclare(#14) I suppose one could argue that the letters are legal but they allude to you thinking that you have won millions and on the back in small print says that the company does not participate in sweepstakes lotteries etc. These letters are illegal in the UK so the police said. On one it actually says in the small, dark, close grey print that is printed on a slightly lighter grey. Or says the phrase "used for creative advertising purposes". Even with a Jaded eye there are many I had to read 3 times to get find out what is being sold. End of the day it leave many with the impression they have won millions. The majority of these letters go to one of two sources Holland or Nigeria and police and only enforce the law in their own country. Soft targets like speeding is much easier than hunting down this.

Whitewing (#15,#16) She believes in a greater being, but would not call her that religious. Belief and trust are closely linked and she believes she will win millions. She is vulnerable as she addict to this type of scam, but you can't really punish people for making poor choices. Many have made poor choices and some continue to do so - I've a few ex girlfriends I never want to see again! I just want to remove the choice. It is worth while speaking to Social Services though will do this as they may know of something to fill her time. I've tried to get her to volunteer at the hospital or charity shops, but she does not want to.

Threewheeler (#18) Power of Attorney - for me not a chance!!!! about 7-ish years ago mum came back from living overseas. Going to Bingo she was spending close to £2000 in 4 weeks (minus some clothes £200 + food £200 - very generous estimate). I convinced her to give me her cash to invest and she has been on a much meager existence ever since.

briona (#21) English is not her first language and she has never been a good writer, partly because she is semi-literate and not English. Even Xmas cards this year was a chore. I whole heartedly feel similar to you that she could spend the money in a much more positive way.

Becles (#19) "There is nothing that the postman can do. They legally have to deliver to the address on the envelope." The Postman can't, but the Post Office can, but sometimes they don't, sometimes they do. In your case probably were legal charities.

waddy80 (#25) Yes, Think she gets the same type. Some even tell the participant not to inform anyone as it is a secret/confidential lottery. Some get you to send all the paperwork back.

***********
Happy new year to you all!

Was there today. nothing about gambling was said. Took her rubbish out and fortunately she puts her 'winning offers' into a different bag, so hijacked them for Trading standards as they said they may need them.

***********
Phoned social services. I live in the lowest star rating area in the uk for social services. The council said they can do nothing except send her to a day center and there is nothing else for OAP. If she has dementia then I can control her money, but she does not.

Tiff_2

Hi bookduck!:hello:
How are you hun? I just read through your reply angel and I can understand your frustration.
As opposed to showing her newspapers (nobody trusts them!), showing her articles from the BBC, OFT will possibly have more credibility. These letters are actually illegal and as I said, even foreign countries are investigating such incidents here and gathering evidence. OFT are really hot on this sort of thing. Another idea is to have her local community support officer come and have a few words with her, and maybe even ask the crime prevention officer to visit.
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

Tiff_2

Hi bookduck!
Guess who? Just another thought although it may be a bit sneaky. Maybe the police or OFT could contact her using the approach that they are investigating criminal activity (which is true), and that her name has been noticed as a recipient of these criminal fraud letters and they need her experiences as a statement to aid their investigations.
With it being from such formal agencies and with them approaching her, she may take more notice. I know she's strong-willed from what you say hun, but if she hears from the horses mouth then it might make some difference.
Much Love,
Tiff xxx

wolfehouse

thanks for your comprehensive reply.
sorry that i think anything we suggest probably won't solve things.

your mum sounds an awfully like my MIL after her stroke- accusing relatives (when they try to help) = generally unable to listen to any sensible advice. i suggest it is tied to cognitive difficulties.
maybe the stroke association or help the aged would have seen it all before and have some suggestions or even resources like clubs.

you should be congratulated for all the concern and help you are giving her.

briona

Hi Bookduck

You really sound like you're up against a brick wall – BIG hugs. But surely the with the collective wisdom of the MSE forum users, we can resolve this?!?

I wonder if there's a way you could minimise the money available to her? For example, being New Year and with the usual news of an impending financial crisis, is there any way you could convince her to put something in a savings account (a nice high paying internet account like ICICI, that she has no access to!). Then set up a direct debit from her current account into her savings one, thereby protecting at least some of the money from the fraudsters.

Alternatively could you take the letters (or copies of them) to her bank. Explain your absolute frustration to them just as you have done here, and see if they can limit the withdrawals (per day/week whatever, as with bets placed on gambling accounts), refuse to issue further postal orders or even call her in for a "chat" about her account.

In response to Margaret Clare saying how angry she'd be if her kids interfered with her finances, I can understand (and in part agree with!) that, but I can also see that you are desperately trying to stop your mother being scammed.

So financial intervention aside, how about approaching your local paper to put an article on these scams in their next edition. I know you said your mother is not very literate but could this be something you could read to her?

Or could you produce a mail shot yourself for the area (single sided A5 leaflet) warning of lottery scams. Local printers will run these through the photocopier for as little as 3p a copy. If you need any help knocking together a design (being a Graphic designer) I can design something and send you a print ready file). If you have one, your local scouts group could deliver these to every house (including your mother's) or in the absence of such an organisation, the local paper might allow you to insert them into each copy.

On a smaller scale, would she be interested in scratch cards at all? I know that replacing one form of money wasting with another is not ideal, but at least you have more chance of winning something on a scratch card. And they are (depending on how many you buy) far cheaper than lining some vile frauster's pocket!

I know some of these ideas will be a bit controversial but they are not posed to upset/offend anyone, rather as alternative measures in a desperate situation.

Hope you get this sorted ASAP.

Briona

Savvy_Sue

margaretclare wrote: »

Years ago my first husband and I used to get letters from 'Reader's Digest'. I used to get letters which appeared to be personally written by someone called Tom Champagne, inviting me to choose the menu for my presentation dinner because 'you are so close to winning £2m'.

Tom Champagne has now retired, can't remember who's taken over from him, but I was incandescent with rage to get ANOTHER of their 'watch your letterbox' letters the other day, I'd opened it before I realised what it was or it would have gone straight back to them with RTS on it.

However, RD has one advantage over the scammers: they don't ask for money up-front apart from inviting you to buy books. Of course many people are persuaded that buying the books will increase their chances of winning, but maybe a subscription to RD would help a little? AFAIK there's usually a special offer making a very reasonable cost for a year's subscription, and you can do that as a gift.

But if she's not a reader that may not help. I always enjoy reading it personally, lots of variety. It's just the 'you've nearly won ...' letters which drove me round the bend, and it's taken two years to get them off my back - and now they start again! :mad:

whitewing

Just wondering what your mum's first language is? Perhaps as she is getting older she may enjoy a daily newspaper or something in her first language. When my nan was your mum's age she was thinking a lot more about her earlier life.

Or maybe, and I don't mean to upset any older folk on here, you could start to consider an old folk's home or sheltered housing for your mum. I know many people who have been very resistent to the idea but with taking time and care to choose the most suitable option, it is often something that they wish they'd done years ago.

My OH is foreign too and his grandparents have just recently gone into a home (same age as your mum). It has taken a few months to get used to. Now his nan is walking without a stick. And his grandad is playing his harmonica and has even joined a little music group in the home and are doing concerts. They have their own room so they have their privacy when they want.

I think if you can resolve the loneliness issue, everything else will follow.

You could even consider a home abroad, if she were up to the travelling and you had other relatives nearby and obviously there are many, many considerations here. I'm thinking any of the language element. Mind you, OH has been out of his country for 5 years now and says he is forgetting how to speak his own language! The last thing you want is for your mum to feel rootless.

But don't think that this is something you can suggest and she will agree straight away. It may take many, many months for her to come round to the idea. And she may be worried about losing contact with you.