APCOA Penalty Notice Railway Parking

Birkyboy

Good evening all,

This is a very quick turnaround request....

I have re-read the newbies post (been here once before!) and believe the my next step is to post a new thread.

Whilst my case is the similar to many others, I do have some subtly different circumstances, so definitely interested in the advice from those seasoned pros out there.

I have received an APCOA penalty notice for three bridges station, as the keeper of a vehicle that is alleged to have not paid for parking. Letter dated 30 Aug 24, I have MISSED the appeal cut off date by some margin! The usual £100 fine that will be reduced to £60 if paid in 14 days. Letter refers to railway byelaws etc. 

Of note: Second picture leaving the car park is VERY dark and they have used an enhanced picture cut out of the number plate underneath to show the registration. The plate itself cannot be distinguished in the main photo. 

I have also received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus (DRP), dated 3 Oct 24. Deadline for the 'unpaid penalty notice' is stated 17 Oct 24 and is now £170! They also state that they will recommend to the creditor, that court action should be taken if I do not pay by 17 Oct 24.

Importantly - Both letters opened today. I work abroad and have been away the majority of the period from mid Aug to present date. BUT I did return to the UK 6-15 Sep and I was at my home address for some of those 9 days. The APCOA letter was no doubt at my address during the dates I was home, but I did not have the time or inclination to look at the (junk) mail that tends to build up. (I am, like most, generally paperless these days and rarely get a letter that needs opening, other than a birthday card!) 

I have plenty of evidence to show I was out of the country (passport stamps, receipts, other official documentation). But it will show of course that I was in the country for that period in September. 

So, I am faced with the situation:

I have missed the chance to appeal to APCOA within 28 days (circa 2 weeks overdue).
I only have 6 days (4 working days!!) until the deadline from DRP.

I have read advice on here saying do not contact the debt recovery company under any circumstances. I do not plan to, but will consider if advised differently. 

I believe I have (strong?) grounds to request a chance to respond to the first letter from APCOA and go through the appeal process, given my unusual circumstances. HOWEVER, I cannot prove that the first letter remained unopened until today. I can of course prove that I would not have received the DRP letter until now. 

Do I write standard appeal template to APCOA, adding my dates abroad and ask them to consider that the letter was only opened today? 
Do I ignore the DRP letter?

Grateful for your thoughts.....

Birky

Gr1pr

I would just let it time out after 6 months, and ignore the debt collectors letters, no keeper liability on railway land 

Never give a claimant information 

KeithP

You can always ignore a DRP letter, as the fourth post of the NEWBIES thread explains.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

The BPA CoP in place at the time of the alleged event requires a PCN to be re-issued if the motorist can show they did not receive it.

Para 23.8 of Version 9 of the CoP applies.

You should complain to APCOA with proof you were out of the country at the time the NTK was presumed to have been given, (you don't need to tell them when you did get home) and require them to re-issue it with a new date.

Version 9.pdf (britishparking.co.uk)

Coupon-mad

Please edit your thread title as there is no imminent deadline.  No urgency at all.

Ignore DR Plus.  Do nothing at all.

You can't appeal now. Let it time out. Nothing will happen.

Birkyboy

Ok, so conflicting advice above. Advice to write and complain to APCOA and also advice to ignore completely and let it time out. 

@Fruitcake. I would be reluctant to send them proof I was out the country, as this will show the actual dates, therefore showing I was in fact in the country for a period in September. I do agree that I should write and state that i have been abroad and only just received the letters (I don't need to get into specifics of dates!).

@Coupon-mad Would it not be better to write an appeal letter? And justify why I have missed the deadline. My concern is, that if I do nothing at all and I am the unlucky one in a thousand who gets taken to court, then I could at least show the court that I had challenged the decision, based on my circumstances. As opposed to just ignoring everything. The latter would not stand well in court surely? (Unlikely I know).

I have no idea how to edit the title, but will look into it....

Thanks again.

Birkyboy

@KeithP Have seen the para re debt letters. Thank you. Most the links do not work though...

KeithP

Birkyboy said:

@KeithP Have seen the para re debt letters. Thank you. Most the links do not work though...

Hmmm... well two out of the six links in the fourth post of the NEWBIES thread don't work.

But the message of that post is still clear. 

Fruitcake

Birkyboy said:

Ok, so conflicting advice above. Advice to write and complain to APCOA and also advice to ignore completely and let it time out. 

@Fruitcake. I would be reluctant to send them proof I was out the country, as this will show the actual dates, therefore showing I was in fact in the country for a period in September. I do agree that I should write and state that i have been abroad and only just received the letters (I don't need to get into specifics of dates!).

@Coupon-mad Would it not be better to write an appeal letter? And justify why I have missed the deadline. My concern is, that if I do nothing at all and I am the unlucky one in a thousand who gets taken to court, then I could at least show the court that I had challenged the decision, based on my circumstances. As opposed to just ignoring everything. The latter would not stand well in court surely? (Unlikely I know).

I have no idea how to edit the title, but will look into it....

Thanks again.

Personally I would complain to CRAPCOA and just state you were out of the country because it will push this a bit nearer the six month deadline. I am a great believer in making them work for their money and costing them time and money at every opportunity, now much how little or how much.
If they refuse to reissue the PCN, then I would complain to the BPA for the same reasons.
I would do this because I am a belligerent !!!!!! when it comes to the unregulated parking scamdustry, and I want to cost them every penny I can, because I begrudge them every penny they make.
However, nothing will happen if you ignore them because they are benign.

LDast

I'd report them to Action Fraud because APCOA are fraudulently pretending that the notice is a Penalty issued under railway bylaws. It is nothing of the sort. If it were a real PN, it would have to state under which authority APCOA can issue a PN. I will bet that there is no mention of which TOC or Network Rail has given them the authority to issue a PN.

It is fraudulent because it is not a PN at all. It is an "offered contract" whereby APCOA promise not to prosecute you in the magistrates court if you pay them £100 (or whatever amount) into their coffers. As it is an "offered contract" there is no obligation on anyone, never mind the driver, keeper or owner of the vehicle, to accept it.

Therefore, it is an unlawful attempt to con you into believing that it is a PN and uses language that suggests it is a PN and that a criminal offence has been committed, when in fact it is nothing of the sort. It is a scam, pure and simple. It is also abetted by the BPA and POPLA.

The DVLA have been providing keeper data. As the data holder, they are also liable for tens if not hundreds of thousands of breaches of GDPR by supplying data for this scam.

For that reason alone, you should report it to Action Fraud.

APCOA and SABA have been perpetuating this scam for years. It is no small matter as the sums involved are likely in the £millions.

Umkomaas

My concern is, that if I do nothing at all and I am the unlucky one in a thousand who gets taken to court

😄

You'd be one in a million (at least). APCOA have never taken any parking charge to court. APCOA can't take a penalty charge to court. DRP would never be able to take this to court. 

String it out with letter ping pong, or ignore it. Either strategy will take you through to the 6 months timeout point.