From Zero to £335 - Electric van tax hike in April 2025

Herzlos

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work.

No mechanism is going to be fair for everyone, but linking it to mileage somehow makes the most sense as higher mileage users and going to be using more road and causing more pollution and congestion.

My commute is an 80 mile round trip, so I certainly don't fancy paying a per-mile cost on top, but it still seems to be the fairest option.

I'd rather we didn't get into opt-outs and rebates and whatever because that'll just drive the cost of administration right up and everyone will want involved.

Goudy

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work. 

I'd love to take public transport to commute, but that's not an option so I have to drive 30 miles each way.

For social domestic and pleasure might be fair. 

You are already paying a pay per mile charge in the form of Fuel Duty, unless you have a EV.
Which is the issue as EV's don't pay Fuel Duty. This is why they are looking as a different approach to capture revenue, so far it looks like that will be PPM.


As already mentioned, a few countries already have  PPM schemes, like the New Zealand RUC (Road User Charge) scheme mentioned above. 
This is a pre pay scheme so you have to buy blocks of 1000kms before hand.
You can buy a max of six blocks at a time.
Price depends on a few things, but the main one is weight.

There's a dumb and smart system available.
The owner displays an up to date sticker with the expiry mileage on it though there is an electronic version that you can set up to automatically pay and send the data to display on an in vehicle display.
This is more accurate as it can pick up "off road use", so won't count miles done off the normal public roads.

It's enforced by the Police mainly but the electronic version just automatically tops up the blocks for you as and when needed.
With some tweaking it could be used here though there could be a few enforcement and validation problems to over come.

 

Car_54

Goudy said:

With some tweaking it could be used here though there could be a few enforcement and validation problems to over come.

When they hear the words "some tweaking" the software supplier will open the champagne.

Mildly_Miffed

Herzlos said:

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work.

No mechanism is going to be fair for everyone, but linking it to mileage somehow makes the most sense as higher mileage users and going to be using more road and causing more pollution and congestion.

My commute is an 80 mile round trip, so I certainly don't fancy paying a per-mile cost on top, but it still seems to be the fairest option.

I'd rather we didn't get into opt-outs and rebates and whatever because that'll just drive the cost of administration right up and everyone will want involved.

Any ANPR-based scheme will take account of time and location.

Rush-hour, urban? Expensive per mile.
Rural, quiet? Cheap per mile.

Your choice to do an 80 mile round trip has to be made with reference to the cost - there's already a sizeable per-mile tax element, of course, in fuel duty and 20% VAT. The difficulty for the exchequer is that the move to BEVs removes that and replaces it with, at best, 5% VAT - and no tax at all, if the electricity comes from your own solar.

Herzlos

Mildly_Miffed said:

Herzlos said:

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work.

No mechanism is going to be fair for everyone, but linking it to mileage somehow makes the most sense as higher mileage users and going to be using more road and causing more pollution and congestion.

My commute is an 80 mile round trip, so I certainly don't fancy paying a per-mile cost on top, but it still seems to be the fairest option.

I'd rather we didn't get into opt-outs and rebates and whatever because that'll just drive the cost of administration right up and everyone will want involved.

Any ANPR-based scheme will take account of time and location.

Rush-hour, urban? Expensive per mile.
Rural, quiet? Cheap per mile.

Your choice to do an 80 mile round trip has to be made with reference to the cost - there's already a sizeable per-mile tax element, of course, in fuel duty and 20% VAT. The difficulty for the exchequer is that the move to BEVs removes that and replaces it with, at best, 5% VAT - and no tax at all, if the electricity comes from your own solar.

There's certainly some scope for expanded congestion charging and making it time based, but that's likely to be a separate thing. It's not really viable (or politically acceptable) to have the mileage system being based off of spying (cameras or GPS) so would likely only be at MOT or any other formal system interaction such as presumably servicing or police checks.

Whatever you do, some people will complain it's unfair and some people will do all they can to dodge it, such as taking horrible time consuming rat runs to miss a camera or whatever.

Belenus

Car_54 said:

Goudy said:

With some tweaking it could be used here though there could be a few enforcement and validation problems to over come.

When they hear the words "some tweaking" the software supplier will open the champagne.

I hope it isn't Fujitsu.

born_again

Herzlos said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

Herzlos said:

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work.

No mechanism is going to be fair for everyone, but linking it to mileage somehow makes the most sense as higher mileage users and going to be using more road and causing more pollution and congestion.

My commute is an 80 mile round trip, so I certainly don't fancy paying a per-mile cost on top, but it still seems to be the fairest option.

I'd rather we didn't get into opt-outs and rebates and whatever because that'll just drive the cost of administration right up and everyone will want involved.

Any ANPR-based scheme will take account of time and location.

Rush-hour, urban? Expensive per mile.
Rural, quiet? Cheap per mile.

Your choice to do an 80 mile round trip has to be made with reference to the cost - there's already a sizeable per-mile tax element, of course, in fuel duty and 20% VAT. The difficulty for the exchequer is that the move to BEVs removes that and replaces it with, at best, 5% VAT - and no tax at all, if the electricity comes from your own solar.

There's certainly some scope for expanded congestion charging and making it time based, but that's likely to be a separate thing. It's not really viable (or politically acceptable) to have the mileage system being based off of spying (cameras or GPS) so would likely only be at MOT or any other formal system interaction such as presumably servicing or police checks.

Whatever you do, some people will complain it's unfair and some people will do all they can to dodge it, such as taking horrible time consuming rat runs to miss a camera or whatever.

Which is why a ANPR system will cost so much & take years to complete, as it will in effect require a camera at every junction.

This is one to watch. As no matter which way they go with PPM there are downsides. 
I guess in many ways a system like NZ. That is enforced & with either stiff fines or cars impounded for people abusing the system.

nottsphil

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work. 

I'd love to take public transport to commute, but that's not an option so I have to drive 30 miles each way.

For social domestic and pleasure might be fair. 

But you do have the option to move somewhere that has public transport to your workplace. But maybe you like it in the countryside, and you factored in the commute when deciding to live there. Bottom line is, people like us who do minimal mileage are heavily subsidizing your 300 mile per week commute .

Car_54

nottsphil said:

mikrt said:

The pay per mile isn't fair for us in deepest countryside who need to get to work. 

I'd love to take public transport to commute, but that's not an option so I have to drive 30 miles each way.

For social domestic and pleasure might be fair. 

But you do have the option to move somewhere that has public transport to your workplace. But maybe you like it in the countryside, and you factored in the commute when deciding to live there. Bottom line is, people like us who do minimal mileage are heavily subsidizing your 300 mile per week commute .

In what way are you subsidising (sp?) him?

Jenni_D

With the current regime (annual VED) then two people with the same make/model of car will pay the same VED ... one in town doing low mileage would be effectively "subsidising" the one in the country doing high mileage if that VED was considered on a per-mile basis.