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Boiler Not Repairable In Rented Property

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Comments

  • FlorayG said:
    It could still be mortgaged - you can get a BTL mortgage until you are 99

    It’s more likely the LL bought it for thruppence ha’penny, pre-decimalisation!

    Some people are just terminally cheap and refuse to spend money maintaining their assets however many decades of income they’ve provided. 
    As S62 says - we don't have the level of detail to suggest "why" there is not adequate funds for the boiler. 

    As an alternative possibility, perhaps LL had the money set aside until his wife's health declined meaning she needed to be in an expensive nursing home for the final years of her life, and he spend the maintenance fund on ensuring that she had as good a quality of life as was possible? 
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  • FreeBear
    FreeBear Posts: 17,328 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    caprikid1 said: To the suggestion of a Heat Pump , many rural properties have poor insulation due to their age, a simple install of a head pump is not the norm for such properties with every radiator often needing changing more insulation and solar power to prevent sky high electric. A decent suitable installation in a Rural property covering insulation and solar could be in the region of £20,000.
    A heat pump is just another source of heat. Yes, one works best with a decent level of insulation, but so does any other form of heating such as gas or oil. If you have a poorly insulated cold draughty property, the heating bills will be astronomical regardless.

    It may be possible that the tenant qualifies for an ECO4 and/or Warm Homes grant on top of BUS funding for a heat pump - If so, that would reduce the installation cost considerably.

    ian1246 said:
    Heat pumps a terrible suggestion. Had a quote from Octopus a few weeks ago - £7000 after grants. That didn't include any upgrades to insulation needed.
    The quotes Octopus give do vary considerably. I had one for £2700, and have heard of others at £1500 or less. Much depends on the size of property, location, and of course, the amount of work involved.
    Heat pumps has its own little section on MSE - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/categories/heat-pumps
    Both worth a read to dispel some of the myths and to get an idea of the range of costs.
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  • Jude57
    Jude57 Posts: 651 Forumite
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    My niece lives in a tiny rural village in Norfolk and since moving there from a large city she's discovered that 'local' tradesmen will factor traveling time on the majority small rural roads into their quotes - if any are even prepared to visit to provide a quote. For a recent electric shower replacement the two quotes she managed to get were astronomical compared to what her uncle, a gas engineer/plumber who lives in a suburb of a large city, would charge. He then looked up the apparent distance the installers would be travelling and was at first certain that the quotes were inflated until my niece sent him photos of the roads involved and explained how long it takes to get anywhere in Norfolk once you're off the main north/south route. When he factored in the time, his own estimate went up considerably. He also explained that some tradesmen will inflate a quote for a job they don't want to actually do and guessed that, given the pain getting to and from my niece's job would be, at least one of those who quoted could be using that as a tactic to avoid the job, especially as tradesmen often need to be able to nip to the supplier for parts etc. If the tradesmen on my niece's job needed to do that, it would be a two and a half hour round trip (assuming no roadworks!) so that could be part of the problem, too, for the OP's sister's landlord.
  • RHemmings
    RHemmings Posts: 4,553 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    Because of some previous posts, I wanted to make it clear that oil boilers can be bought on fiance too. 

    https://www.rwilsonservices.co.uk/0-interest-on-oil-boilers/
  • Kim_13
    Kim_13 Posts: 3,011 Forumite
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    Just to add that if your sister wishes to stay and not ‘go legal’, then she could suggest that she keeps the rent in a savings account in her name and then gets a boiler once enough has accrued - but this would require managing as is with the heaters the LL is supplying until then. You would want the LL to agree to this, and any rent reduction to compensate for the delay in writing, so that no one could claim unpaid rent later. That way, she’d still have the money if anything happened to LL and his family wanted to sell up.

    It would be for him to declare to the taxman that rent had been received at the rate it was being accrued in the ‘boiler account’, but it at least means the risk of paying for the boiler for the LL isn’t falling on the tenant.
  • I think the best option is for sis or LL to get a couple more quotes to see if £7k really is an 'I don't want that job' quote. If they come in at, say, half that or less, it could be something the LL can afford. Maybe it just wants parts and it'll be even cheaper. Get that bit nailed down first.

    In the longer term I'd be looking at other places live. This is a lot of assumptions but - when the LL passes and presuming it goes to the investing son, he may well put the rent up to cover the boiler or just hike it in general in line with whatever the local comparable rents would be at that time. That would leave me anxious tbh, so I'd be having a browse now to see what else is out there. I appreciate you said your sister doesn't want to move, but perhaps moving will get her out from under a (potentially) bad situation. Easier to do it now rather than in x years time. 

    Good luck.
    Thanks for explaining the word 'many' to me. It means a lot.
  • As is often the case with threads that go on for a number of pages, some basic facts are lost, and they lead to well-intentioned suggestions that aren't relevant. What we seemingly do know;
    1) Mrs Wenger's sis' really wants to remain in this property. The reason for this is clear, and it's likely that this wish will continue for at least a further year, possibly more.
    2) The rent is seemingly around the typical market rate for the area, at £800pm. So it isn't a concession of any kind; Wenger's sis' ain't staying there 'cos it's cheap.
    3) We know the property is in 'rural Norfolk', but know little else about it - its age, condition, lack of insulation, etc.
    4) The LL is 90 and seemingly does not have the finances to pay for a new boiler, and certainly no inclination to find a solution other than hand over electric heaters which, at current rates, will cost 3-4 times as much to run than oil. It should be considered surprising that he does not have the savings for this job, since he's been renting it out for many years, with seemingly little outgoing costs. That's concerning.
    5) LL has a 'speculating' son. I can also speculate - that this son is finance-driven, and possibly has invested his dad's money for him. This son is apparently helping his dad with running this property, but is equally disinclined to do the right thing here.
    6) The 'right thing' is to repair or replace the oil boiler. The type of heating used in any rental will have a direct bearing on its rental value; very few folk would happily rent a property which is heated only by full-rate electricity, at least not unless the rental amount was commensurate. Wenger's sis' should have a fair idea of what she paid for oil over last winter. At a very rough guess, she should triple that amount for the likely forthcoming leccy costs.
    7) She has just added £300 of oil to the tank. Normally not a problem as the boiler should be repaired. But, morally -and quite possibly legally - the LL should compensate her for this if he has no intention of replacing the boiler.
    So, what should she do?
  • ThisIsWeird
    ThisIsWeird Posts: 7,661 Forumite
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    edited 10 October 2024 am31 11:53AM
    1) Like others, I would suggest that Mrs Wenger's sis' should ask two or more other installers for quotes for a new oil boiler. The £7k sum is nuts. I cannot see any remote justification for this, unless it included a new tank and pipes, for example? (If her current tank is steel, and single-skinned, this could well be a requirement). Even then, £7k is surely highish?
    2) Meanwhile, Wenger's sis' should calculate the cost of her oil heating over last winter. The price of oil has seemingly dropped by around 10p over the year, but most other costs are going up. I suspect the cost of oil this winter will be roughly the same as last year.
    3) Her sis' should then work out how much the leccy bill will likely be over this coming winter - I suspect 3 to 4 times the cost of whatever oil was used last year.
    4) I think she can assume that the LL - possibly through general frailty - is not in a position to act on much of this and make any proper decisions. I think she can further assume that the LL's son is made of even weaker stuff, ethically.

    Armed with these figures, she can present some options to the LL;
    a) Ideally a much better quote for the boiler. If this can be brought down to, say ~£4k or less, then no Landlord has any excuse. If they are that incompetent at their task, they need to stop being a LL. So, see what quotes you can get, Mrs W's sis'.
    b) Calculations showing the additional cost of using electricity as opposed to oil. These can be presumptive sums at the mo' - we don't know what the winter will be like - and actual figures will be given after the fact. Mrs W's sis' will then deduct the difference betwixt oil and leccy from each ongoing month's rent.
    c) R Hemmings' suggestion of checking whether loans are available for the LL to cover the cost of a new boiler (see next post). 

    Overall, I would personally assume that, whilst the ageing LL may have been well-intentioned in his past dealings with Mrs W's sis', I would not give such consideration to his son; he seemingly claims to be assisting his dad with the property, and clearly has the 'money', but chooses not to use it for the right thing - even tho' he'll likely inherit this house. Financially secure, but morally bankrupt (just guessing, of course...) So, the other option, which I'd originally also mooted - that sis' could consider a means of her loaning the money - I am now very hesitant about. It probably wasn't a goer anyway.
    Mrs Wenger's sis' will hopefully be able to look and accept her continued tenancy in this house as being medium-term only, in which case she doesn't have to worry too much what option the LL goes for - or is forced to - but just look after her own rightful interests until she can find a better place in a year or so's time.

  • RHemmings
    RHemmings Posts: 4,553 Forumite
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    I still think it's worth the landlord seeing if they can get a boiler on 0% finance, the loan part of which will be secured on the house. I had a quick look at companies that offer this for oil boilers, and they have contact details and can be asked. Often on the phone.

    If I was the OP, then I'd phone such companies. Ask as an overall question whether the landlord would be likely to be able to buy on finance, and then pass that information onto the landlord. To me it seems worth a try, as if a boiler can be bought on finance the landlord can pay over time, and the tenant gets a working boiler and doesn't have to get involved with complexities such as effectively or actually lending their elderly landlord money. 
  • Stubod
    Stubod Posts: 2,432 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Yes the Landlord should replace the boiler, however as far as I am aware, the Landlord is not (legally) obliged to replace the boiler, but they do have to provide an alternative heating source, (which I thin the OP has said they have done with electric heaters). 
    I agree that the landlord should compensate for the cost of the"lost" oil, (again not sure if this is a "legal" requirement, but certainly a moral one). 
    We have insufficient info regarding the replacement costs as there is a lot of "new/current" legislation regarding the positioning and replacement of oil tanks, (eg must now be 3m from any adjacent buildings including sheds), and given the age it may also be necessary to replace the radiators?...so £7k may well be justified?
    As to "how" it is paid for, there is no simple answer, but it does surprise me that a landlord who is getting £9,600 per year rent can't afford it?
    I would also agree, that if the Landlord is 90, then it does not bode well for the tennant in the long run, and they should seriously consider options to finding alternative accomodation?
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