CPM PCN for residential car park - Tenant

cavebr

Hi,

Hoping someone can help me with some advice here. 

I am a tenant in a block of flats with a car park catering to residents in the flats. There is a parking space allocated to the flat I rent (not own) and I usually have to display a permit - this was explained by estate agents when I moved in. 

Recently my car the permit is in broke down and was rendered unusable (away from the flat). I didn’t think to grab the permit if I needed it. 

Whole my car was being repaired I borrowed another persons car on a few occasions and parked in my allocated space - but without showing a permit, as it was stuck in my regular car at the garage! There is nowhere else to park my car in the area - all roads around it are permit controlled by the council. I wrote a note in the windscreen explaining the situation. This happened at a weekend and I was unable to get through to CPM to get a temporary permit. 

Over the next few weeks I parked in there occasionally. I kept ringing CPM to get a temporary permit but was unable to get through until two weeks after. By this time they had sent me two PCNs. 

I appealed these PCNs using the reasoning that the parking space is allocated to my flat and I had been unable to get through to them for a temporary permit. The temporary permits can only be obtained via phone, not by email etc. They are only open office hours and not weekends. 

They have just refused my appeals on both the two tickets. I know many will say not to pay, but technically I didn’t have a permit on display. I don’t know if my being unable to get through to get a temporary permit is enough of a mitigating factor. 

I am also about a month of exchanging on a house and soon to be moving - so I really don’t want anyone impacting my credit rating right now. It annoys me so much but I’m debating just paying the two (TWO!!) notices at a price of £120 total as I can’t deal with the stress of them pursuing me right now. 

Any advice? I am away at the moment but will try ringing the management company when I’m back … not super hopeful as I’m not the owner of the flat. Estate agent/owner also next to useless. As much as it seems like a lot of money wondering if it’s just worth my time to pay, forget about it and in a month or two not have to worry about stupid permit companies as I’ll have moved!

h2g2

It may have been explained by the estate agent, but what does your tenancy agreement say about parking? If the tenancy agreement gives you the unrestricted right to park it doesn't matter what the estate agent said nor what any signs around say.

You might (but don't necessarily) have a defence based on primacy of contract.

Coupon-mad

Nothing will impact your credit rating at all because they can only do that by winning in court (which takes about a year...and we win 99% of the time, not UKCPM) or by sneaking a CCJ to your old address behind your back later on, after you have moved.

So no danger there as long as you IMMEDIATELY tell them your new address (in writing/email, not by phone) when you move house and then ignore their letters until you get a Gladstones LBC. That will require a reply. Dead easy.

You can't move and not tell them. Eek no!

DO NOT PAY FOR AN EASY LIFE. THAT'S FUNDING THE SCAM REGIME.

Read the 4th then 2nd posts of the NEWBIES thread, in that order please.

I really really hope you aren't moving to another place with a scammer in the car park?  Please tell us you aren't moving to another scammers' residential car park regime?  You can't live like this.

Nobody needs an ex-clamper's fake permit scheme. Avoid!

cavebr

Hey,

Thanks so much for your replies,

My tenancy agreement says nothing about parking, sadly. It was verbally told to us by the estate agent that the parking space came with the flat and they gave us the permit for it. 

It was never my intention to not tell the parking company about the move. I am erring towards just paying as I really can’t cope with any stress. I know it’s a lot of money but as it two fines I’m conscious whether they would pursue me in court, and I just don’t want any of that. Purchasing a house right now is stress enough!!!

And no, I am totally avoiding a block of flats completely so will have none of this nonsense when purchase goes through. 

It’s easy to say not to pay, but I am in a weird situation. I don’t have access to the leasehold agreement as to whether the flat definitely owns the space/whether the owner has agreed to CPM patrolling it, etc. I technically didn’t have a permit on show and the signs in the car park request a permit on the dash at all times. It’s annoying as I was unable to get through to them to get a temporary permit but legally where do I stand with that? It’s not super clear to me. 

I have appealed through CPM already so now would have to go through someone else. Or just refuse to pay… but I don’t want any trouble. As much as I hate these firms I don’t want to make things difficult for myself. 

I am actually so angry that that I have had fines for parking in the space for my flat. Literally ridiculous. I feel I would have more clout if I owned the flat but just as a tenant with an unhelpful EA and landlord.. I hate to pay but I think it would just be easier? I know that’s not what you guys want to hear but that’s sadly my reality right now. 

GrumpyDil

Problem is that if you pay you are feeding the beast and everyone on this forum (aside from anyone actually working for these scummy companies) would prefer to see them starve.

Coupon-mad

I am erring towards just paying

Nonononono.  Please please don't.  Don't join and sponsor them.  It's because people pay that they persist. Don't!

There's no reason to pay. You had a right to park, as a tenant. This isn't stressful. It's very easy. We take the stress off your shoulders. Everything is done for you.

cavebr

Oh, I would definitely prefer not to feed the beast. 

My issue is that from a legal standpoint, what leg do I have to stand on really? A lot of the advice in this forum is directed towards retail parking. Mine is a residential issue. And while I was told by my estate agent that the parking space came with the flat, my tenancy agreement doesn’t quantify this. I don’t have access to the flat owners lease or details around the parking agreement. So what evidence do I use?

Literally my only defence is I tried to call to obtain a temporary permit but couldn’t get through. Unfortunately, I still parked in the bay without a permit due to this. 

I have admitted the car was mine/I did the parking by saying I parked in my space. So really from a legal standpoint, where do I go from here?

I will try to contact the management company of the block of flats when I’m home Monday, but am not expecting them to be helpful either. 

Other than that, what recourse exactly am I meant to take/what defence do I use? It’s stupid that the parking space is connected with the flat but legally, I can’t prove that. And that the parking rules should be there to benefit members of the flats and prevent others parking there, but again, legal standpoint? I haven’t seen an example with a private residential charge being successfully appealed. 

Coupon-mad

A lot of the advice in this forum is directed towards retail parking. Mine is a residential issue.

No it isn't. Most court claims we handle are about residential parking!

Here's some background reading from our old friend the Parking Prankster:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html?m=1

No stress. But get some evidence and try to get these cancelled while you still have some leverage as a current resident.

You have the permit.  Take a photo of both sides of it now and take several pics of signs obscured by bushes, in a dark corner, under a shelter, behind garages, hidden by the bins, etc.

Email the letting agent to get them to please confirm that you had an allocated space (or right to park in a shared space?).  That will be useful later.

And importantly, if you have any contact with your private landlord, politely email them now and tell them about your predicament & ask if they would kindly copy or photograph the section in their lease that grants parking rights and please confirm that he/she passed those rights to you whilst a tenant.

That's your evidence. Keep that safe.

Then calmly move out and tell the scammers your new address (if the MA or landlord hasn't got these cancelled this month which you should push for).

Oh, and leave a welcome but 'warning' note about the scammers for the next tenant.

And don't move into your new place without a permit (hopefully there's no such trap but don't just put a note on your dashboard. PPCs target residents and your visitors).

cavebr

I think you’re slightly misunderstanding me. 

If my landlord/EA was good I would go through them. However, I contacted them about something else roughly a year ago, asking the terms of the lease, and they literally just ignored me. Never replied. I really don’t think this case will be any different. I am so certain that they wouldn’t even bother looking into it for me that I’m not going to contact them. They are so dodgy I wouldn’t want any queries on my end to result in a section 21 notice, right at the wrong time before I have sorted everything with my future house purchase. When you compare the fines to that reality the amount suddenly doesn’t seem so bad in comparison to being left with nowhere to live right before exchanging on a property. 

The signage in the car park is clear - I will re - look when home. It isn’t obscured. It does say to ring the number if any queries.. which I did.. but literally struggled to get through to an actual person to speak to for over a week. 

I will contact the management company (if I can - previously when I tried they would only deal with the landlord…) but otherwise I basically don’t have any evidence. Which makes it very difficult. I am all for fighting for my rights, but currently can’t prove my rights because of my cowboy EA/landlord. So if my defence has to rely on what the lease for the flat says, it’s pretty much a no go for me. 

So I was really asking to see if there were any other defences. It’s an awkward position to be in as a tenant. I supposedly have rights… supposedly. But if I don’t have access to the lease / parking contract, my tenancy agreement doesn’t mention parking, and if the management company won’t engage, what am I supposed to do?

cavebr

And to clarify - my new place has a private driveway included in title deed (and I will be owner, not renting) so will not be an issue for me in the future!

Coupon-mad

cavebr said:

And to clarify - my new place has a private driveway included in title deed (and I will be owner, not renting) so will not be an issue for me in the future!

So pleased you escaped this scam!

No your defence won't depend on a lease you've never seen. Trust us. I have relatives at the same stage as you. All cheerfully ignoring the threatograms and making sure they show me each letter.  That's all.

This scam is part of a multi billion rogue regime.  Far more to it than you may think and I'm on the Government Steering group, representing motorists, to regulate parking firms in 2025. Things will change.

Don't support a scam.