EDF smart meter for Econ 7 - what do I need to know?

lilac_dawn

In theory, the smart meter is being installed nect week (they failed to show up for the last appointment). In view of the fact I have Econ 7, what do I need to know/check/ask please? 

lohr500

Have a look at your existing meter.
Is it an old fashioned one like the one shown on the left in the picture below, or a more modern one with a digital display?
Does it have four thick cables, four thick cables and a thin cable, or five thick cables coming out of the bottom of it?
Is there a separate large box that looks anything like the radio teleswitch unit on the right in this picture?
Or even something that looks like the unit in the 2nd photo?

  




Better still, if you can upload some photos of your existing meter that might make it easier.

The answers to the above questions will help us work out how your existing E7 installation is configured and that will provide the answers as to what to advice to give to EDF.

lilac_dawn

It’s a modern digital one. It does have a teleswitch.
I will endeavour to take a photo and post

Swipe

Just make sure that they install a 5 port smart meter and ask them to confirm that any dedicated off peak circuit for storage heaters etc will only be live during off peak hours. And before anyone chimes in, 4 port meters with external contactors were a stop gap solution due to the supply chain issue with 5 port meters and should no longer be installed for economy 7 customers with storage heater dedicated circuits. Once installed, you then need to stay up or wake up early and monitor the time the economy 7 off peak window kicks in / off.

lohr500

Thanks for posting the photos.
Just follow the excellent advice @Swipe has posted above. 
You might want to contact them in advance of the install to get them to confirm that their service provider will be fitting a 5 wire meter.

When they switch over the meter, the engineer should leave a label or tag with the new meter showing the closing readings for the old meter and the opening readings for the new meter. 
But as a cross check and also just in case they don't leave a tag/label, take a photo of the day and night readings on the old meter shortly before they arrive to do the switch. And do the same for the new meter as soon as possible after it has been fitted. The new meter will most probably show zeros for both readings, but not always.

If any of the readings you have photographed don't match the readings on the label/tag, then contact EDF and advise them (give or take a few units difference to allow for the fact that some electricity will have been used between your readings and those of the engineer).

You can also use the closing and opening readings to check the 1st bill you receive from EDF following the meter swap. It will show the usage for both the old and new meters.

Scot_39

Theres something perhaps strange going on (*) - you have what iirc is a dual rate meter (the 5196D) - which I believe is similar in operation to the later 5235D - which was also shipped under Landis+Gyr brand (who took over Birtish co Ampy) - in that it likely has an external selection of rates - the fifth smaller diameter wire form the teleswitch.

Look under features section of

https://www.energynetworks.org/industry/engineering-and-technical-programmes/radio-teleswitch

For a simple line diagram.

I cannot see any Henleys splitting the 5196D live output (are there any ?) to feed the timeswitch switch input power for restricted devices.

(*) But in the bottom of the photo - their appears to be smart electric meter - or at least what looks like the top of a WNC SKU1 cellular comms hub part of a smart meter.  Is that for another property ?  AS cannot see wires from telemeter linking to it either.

So that and the second meter makes me wonder if you currently have a dual meter setup in some way.

Some E7 dual meter systems split the billing - so normal circuits worked via one meter - and the restricted cirucits only via second dedicated meter.  (My RTS switch was a combined switch and meter - the other main home meter was single rate - the teleswitch measured both heating only and hot water only circuits sperately.)

In a modern e7 smart install one meter is generally used - so off-peak rates apply to not only restricted cicuits - but the whole house (so normal circuits overnight are also off-peak rate)

So getting to next weeks appointment - the two boxes should be replaced with either one 5 port smets2 as above  - which will do the restricted live switch itself - and control the timings itself.

Or as in my slightly less elgent install - a 4 port meter - again the master - controlling an external contactor (switch) for the restricted supply.

Basically if you have restricted circuits - make sure the meter fitter is aware of that (it should be obvious anyway)  - but essentially it should be a straightforward install.

Just try and witness them when check operation - of the restricted circuit switching - before fitter leaves.  (Typically HW immersion and NSH in an older install)

Gerry1

Scot_39 said:

Basically if you have restricted circuits - make sure the meter fitter is aware of that (it should be obvious anyway)  ust try and witness them when check operation - of the restricted circuit switching - before fitter leaves.  (Typically HW immersion and NSH in an older install)

Unless the new meter has a Boost button (not many do) the fitter would have still have to be present around midnight for you to witness a successful rate change and the switched circuit going live !

lohr500

Scot_39 said:

I cannot see any Henleys splitting the 5196D live output (are there any ?) to feed the timeswitch switch input power for restricted devices.

I think your post may just confuse @lil@lilac_dawn

At the risk of sounding patronising to him/her which is not my intention, the fact that they have wisely asked for some basic advice on what to  "know/check/ask" would suggest that studying the radio teleswitch line diagrams or looking for Henleys splitting 5196D outputs is not going to mean a great deal.

My money says the other meter at the bottom of the photo is nothing to do with the OP and is for another property, probably in the same building. But I could be wrong.

It looks to me as though the teleswitch is a bog standard one with permanent live and neutral inputs from the main fuse.(The two thinner cables exiting from the top of the main fuse housing).

As you say, the thinnest wire from the teleswitch back to the meter will be the signal from the teleswitch to "tell" the meter when to switch registers.  This was exactly the configuration on our old E7 meter before it was replaced by a Smart Meter.

To confirm all of this please can @lilac_dawn please just confirm that the meter at the very bottom of the photo is for another property. If so, @Swipe advice is still good

Scot_39

Gerry1 said:

Scot_39 said:

Basically if you have restricted circuits - make sure the meter fitter is aware of that (it should be obvious anyway)  ust try and witness them when check operation - of the restricted circuit switching - before fitter leaves.  (Typically HW immersion and NSH in an older install)

Unless the new meter has a Boost button (not many do) the fitter would have still have to be present around midnight for you to witness a successful rate change and the switched circuit going live !

My meter doesn't have a boost function button and was tested at the time of the install by the fitter - both in fact - the original digital 5 port  - and the replacement smart which was 4 port and auxiliary contactor.

I also remeber one of the fittings took place and was tested manually - and then automatically about 5-10 min later when my 2pm off-peak period kicked in.  The fitter was still present - when it did so.  Had just in fact finished writing my 3 E10 off peak times on my little IHD manual - and then checked his watch - and said - I'll wait til it switches since only a few mins.

Many meters have submenus or key code sequences for boost modes / one (I cannot remeber the type) even listed ALCS test (mins) and boost mode (1 hr).

Some old secure liberty meters for instance iirc boost was a "2 keypad A button" sequence. Aclara was B to cycle sub menus - to boost if a dual rate alcs model - then could select in 15min steps upto an hour and cancel via the A button.

My old RTS meter had a boost button - but also had a link to a physical switch in my kitchen - as did my neighbour at the time - which was lost when went E10 from RTS - she had to go to the meter and do a key sequence to get boost a few days a week to bath her kids. 

The OP wont of course know what meter is instaled until it is - unless been told by supplier - but the fitter should be familiar with it's install and commissioning / test features.

No one was seriously expecting the meter fitter to wait around until midnight.

lilac_dawn

lohr500 said:

Scot_39 said:

I cannot see any Henleys splitting the 5196D live output (are there any ?) to feed the timeswitch switch input power for restricted devices.

I think your post may just confuse @lil@lilac_dawn

At the risk of sounding patronising to him/her which is not my intention, the fact that they have wisely asked for some basic advice on what to  "know/check/ask" would suggest that studying the radio teleswitch line diagrams or looking for Henleys splitting 5196D outputs is not going to mean a great deal.

My money says the other meter at the bottom of the photo is nothing to do with the OP and is for another property, probably in the same building. But I could be wrong.

It looks to me as though the teleswitch is a bog standard one with permanent live and neutral inputs from the main fuse.(The two thinner cables exiting from the top of the main fuse housing).

As you say, the thinnest wire from the teleswitch back to the meter will be the signal from the teleswitch to "tell" the meter when to switch registers.  This was exactly the configuration on our old E7 meter before it was replaced by a Smart Meter.

To confirm all of this please can @lilac_dawn please just confirm that the meter at the very bottom of the photo is for another property. If so, @Swipe advice is still good

Yes, I can confirm the bottom meter is for the property next door.

You did all have me questioning myself though as when I bought this place I had the electrician in to service the old storage heaters and sort out a plan going forward ; 2 of the storage heaters weren't wired into the Econ 7 circuit so in effect were on (or charging) all the time they were switched on at the plugs. The place had been rented out for a long time so I have no idea how the tenants put up with that. I then had a huge bill that Christmas - but that was due to OVO's rate ( I took my eye off the ball...) - and had another huge bill in a year later in Feb, but that was due to the new Quantum not behaving (AFAIK).

Anyway,  I have had experience of Eco 7 for 20 odd years so am pretty on the case when it comes to making sure I use all the big appliances during off-peak and religiously take readings to see the % split. 

The electrician absolutely reassured me that the whole place switches to Eco 7 as the required times.
As the meter installer couldn't manage a morning appointment last time and failed to arrive, I doubt too that s/he will be happy to hang around to 11:30 pm when the Eco 7 kicks in for an hour!!

Scot_39

And my point is they don't have to be there - but should check it.

Ofgem regs insist that the meter should be checked at install time.

https://www.smartenergygb.org/about-smart-meters/the-installation-process

To my mindat any rate

"* check it’s all working properly"

for an E7 meter - should include the ALCS switching and operation of 24/7 live and restricted feeds to consumer units.