Communal drying green dog mess

sunshine17

ThisIsWeird said:

sunshine17 said:

We have never used it since she moved in to sit out as it's not a garden. We came home 6 weeks ago to a note to say she had bought a puppy and to reassure us it wouldn't be using the drying green or letting pup near washing. It's a large square of grass.

Her pup is well over 12 weeks now and I've not seen her walk her dog once.

Do you both also have a 'garden' in addition to this drying area?

Do you still have that note?

Neither she nor her family take this dog out for walks? You could call the RSPCA for advice on this, but unlikely - sadly - it's actionable.

Photo/video every poo you come across.

Post on here what - exactly - it says in your deeds about this ground. And pets. What is this area referred to as?

Evidence evidence - fair warning - then act punitively. Everything at once.

Her mum's coming in day to let it out I assume she's leaving for work just before us. She has pup in crate I'm just going back out to work now and it's crying. No we have small garden at front but that's shared too you need to enter the gate at some to access it too. It just says in deeds it's a drying green it doesn't mention dogs in it. It says it's use is a drying green and wash house. I'm not disputing her dog I'm solely asking of it's fair that she's letting her new dog pee and poo on the grass with the washing line that I solely use even though there is three washing lines to use she said no she likes to tumble her clothes. 

sunshine17

sunshine17 said:

ThisIsWeird said:

sunshine17 said:

We have never used it since she moved in to sit out as it's not a garden. We came home 6 weeks ago to a note to say she had bought a puppy and to reassure us it wouldn't be using the drying green or letting pup near washing. It's a large square of grass.

Her pup is well over 12 weeks now and I've not seen her walk her dog once.

Do you both also have a 'garden' in addition to this drying area?

Do you still have that note?

Neither she nor her family take this dog out for walks? You could call the RSPCA for advice on this, but unlikely - sadly - it's actionable.

Photo/video every poo you come across.

Post on here what - exactly - it says in your deeds about this ground. And pets. What is this area referred to as?

Evidence evidence - fair warning - then act punitively. Everything at once.

Her mum's coming in day to let it out I assume she's leaving for work just before us. She has pup in crate I'm just going back out to work now and it's crying. No we have small garden at front but that's shared too you need to enter the gate at some to access it too. It just says in deeds it's a drying green it doesn't mention dogs in it. It says it's use is a drying green and wash house. I'm not disputing her dog I'm solely asking of it's fair that she's letting her new dog pee and poo on the grass with the washing line that I solely use even though there is three washing lines to use she said no she likes to tumble her clothes. 

There is no garden it's a square with grass on it, there are slabs under her kitchen window there are slabs next to her only entrance and exit we have a front and back stairs down to drying green. A side walk to access back garden and her flat two small sections at front of property we have stairs up to our front door it's an old villa that was converted long before our time. 

pinkshoes

Is it possible to divide the area up? e.g. she has the bit nearest her ground floor, and you have the back part?

Surely somewhere else on the lease mentions no pets without the freeholders permission?!

You're just going to have to be assertive. If it needs mowing then just mow it, regardless if the mother is sitting out there. If you find dog poo on the lawn then I'd either knock immediately and tell them to clean it up, or keep a shovel in the area and move the poo next to their own door.

user1977

pinkshoes said:

Surely somewhere else on the lease mentions no pets without the freeholders permission?!

It's Scotland, we don't have separate freeholders to deal with. I would think it very likely the deeds say nothing in particular about pets.

ThisIsWeird

sunshine17 said:

Her mum's coming in day to let it out I assume she's leaving for work just before us. She has pup in crate I'm just going back out to work now and it's crying. No we have small garden at front but that's shared too you need to enter the gate at some to access it too. It just says in deeds it's a drying green it doesn't mention dogs in it. It says it's use is a drying green and wash house. I'm not disputing her dog I'm solely asking of it's fair that she's letting her new dog pee and poo on the grass with the washing line that I solely use even though there is three washing lines to use she said no she likes to tumble her clothes. 

From what you've described, this lady likely has some mental health issues, or could just be an unpleasant human being. So what do the flat's owners say about this? Have you spoken to them about the mess? If so, what do they say?

Since it's a communal area, whatever they do there, so can you. I fully understand you might not now want to, as you wouldn't feel comfortable with her out there too, but good chance there's little you can do about this; so you either use it the same way, or you don't. It's your choice not to sit out there too.

For all the uses you do wish to make of it - washing, tidying, etc, then just do it, regardless of anything else.

But, it isn't reasonable for her to allow the dog to foul the area. In this case, a reasonable request would be to have the dog kept leashed next to their door; it shouldn't be allowed to go anywhere that you reasonable access in this functional communal area. 

Your front 'shared' garden - is there any mileage in splitting that into two, unofficially, just as an agreement? Or is it just not as nice a place to sit out on?

"We are good neighbours to her like when she slams the gate we paid for and maintain and she breaks it we fix" - next time, you give them a bill for half. 

"or when a slate falls of the house which is 110 year old we fix it" - next time give them a bill for half, 

"or when she puts oil drums in garden to burn wood with her friends on the slabs outside her kitchen window" - you report to your LA , 

"Or when her mother leaves her post it notes on her deck chair that it's a jungle meaning the grass I rise above it" - write on a large note, "And you don't mow the lawn at all why?". 

"Or when we spend three days painting all the fence around the drying green so it doesn't rot she never offers to help is paint it or pay towards the paint to keep it nice" - give them a bill for half. 

"I could go on and on, about the comings and goings at all hours when we are up early for our work on the morning and being kept awake cause she having nookie with tom !!!!!! and Harriet" - um, er, uh...

35har1old

ThisIsWeird said:

sunshine17 said:

Hello advice needed here. We have lived in our upper villa for 14 years and downstairs was empty abandoned for years. We have maintained the whole building prior to the sale of downstairs after it was finally repossessed 6 years ago. We erected new fence and cleared out back communal space . We have joint communal drying green both responsible for upkeep. Downstairs has never once used the drying green or cur the grass or weeded it although her old mother has been up weeding for her because she's not interested in it. We gave her space when she moved in and she has enjoyed sitting outside and socialising with friends.
We have never used it since she moved in to sit out as it's not a garden. We came home 6 weeks ago to a note to say she had bought a puppy and to reassure us it wouldn't be using the drying green or letting pup near washing. It's a large square of grass.
Her pup is well over 12 weeks now and I've not seen her walk her dog once, but there is big patches of yellow dead grass all over drying green and dog mess. She has been out picking it up and with weather I haven't been able to get my washing out.
I put my washing out yesterday and left it out and this morning there's dog meds on grass. She just came back from holiday yesterday and the last week she was away we had attempted to go out and mow the grass but her mother was sitting there drinking enjoying the space and it put us off doing the grass with her sitting there. She doesn't even live here.
We feel like she's taking the !!!!!! and I'm not shy its on the tip of my tongue to pull her up. We paid a lot of money to buy this house and the money we put into the building and communal area for her to let her dog crap wherever it likes. She seems to think she also owns the patio built under her kitchen window we were the ones that laid it because it was a mess before she even lived here.
It's clearly states we both own all communal areas and both responsible for upkeep.
Any one else had this issue or is it ok to use the space as a toilet.

Three separate issues here, I think. The first is the 'rights' of the two parties (you and them) - and their guests - to use that area; is it 'recreational', purely a functional 'amenity', or undefined - so both? The second is the responsibility of each party to keep it maintained. And the third is the poo and wee (I'm guessing, from the yellow patches, that this is a female dawg?)

The first two should go hand-in-hand, but often - as in your case - they don't. Read your deeds for hopeful clarification. The third is completely actionable as a separate entity!

You can tackle all these issues, but some will be easier than others. Ie, you may struggle to make them contribute to its upkeep, tho' you could at least bill them for half of any costs accrued.

The dog-fouling issue should be straight forward to handle; afaIk, it is a potential offence in a number of ways, including 'environmental', and 'anti-social'. Since it is almost certainly (certainly) an 'offence', you can record it using a covert camera, and that's the first thing I'd do before tackling the person; gather unimpeachable evidence, because you know that, without this, the crone will simply deny it, claiming aliens or fence-jumping dawgs for the literal issue.

So, set that in progress. Hidden camera, with sound - you will want to capture the conversations you'll have with them over this. 

(Have a camera with a built-in SD card that overwrites every ~10 days or so - 64 or 128GB size. Any footage of significance to this issue, download it and store, carefully dated and labelled. Do not share it with anyone - it is purely evidence should this matter go - legally - further. All 'unused' footage will automatically be written over.)

Contact your LA and ask them for guidance on this pooing issue too - be informed, but don't ask them to act yet.

Check your deeds, and see what - exactly - it says about (a) the use of that ground, (b) the rights and responsibilities of each party, and (c) if it says anything about pets. 

What you may be able to do about her being out in that area will likely come down to what's written in the deeds, but I suspect there will be nothing there to prevent her from doing what she's doing; almost certainly you have the same rights too, as would your guests - but check your deeds. 

So, your task, until you have enough evidenced-info to tackle the issue, is to go about your life in as 'matter-of-fact' a manner as you can, as if this person was not a piece of dawgpoo; you want to mow that piece of grass? Then mow it. Do not be side-tracked or intimidated by the presence of this vile person. Just do it. If they have the nerve to say anything about you spoiling their enjoyment, be utterly calm and reasonable in countering it; big smile, "This is the only time I have at the mo' for this - soz!" You can push it a bit if you like, "Would you like to mow it instead?" 

Any poos you come across, make it very clear what you have found - and ask, "Any idea which dawg did this?!" Do a loud 'tsktsk', bag it, put it aside, and continue mowing. Evidence evidence evidence. (No, I don't mean you keep the poos as evidence...)

In addition to the covert CCTV camera overlooking the area, in such cases like this when you just know the other party will almost certainly be devious and dishonest, I would recommend a covert 'pocket' camera too, available from around a £enner on eBay. When you finally have the 'conversation' about the poos, have it running. Catch her lying.

When you have investigated your deeds, and gathered enough evidence of her dog's actions, then it's the 'approach'. You will need to know what ground you are on - can you insist that their dog does not go on this area at all, or can it perhaps be permitted if the dog is leashed and kept to within a few feet of their door? Then run through your head a quick reminder of the simple facts of what this person is doing, has done, and will continue to do if not tackled. Ie, these folk have zero consideration or empathy. You are not dealing with a 'normal' or nice human being, so do not worry about 'upsetting' them if they act that way (playing 'victim' is standard practice). Nice and calm, but assertive, and unapologetic. And, for gawd's sakes, have it recorded. "Hi. We need to have a chat about your dawg's fouling." Give her a few seconds to react or respond. "To allow a dog to foul on a communal or public area is both an environmental and anti-social offence, and needs to stop. Your dog needs to be kept completely away from any communal area from now on. It is not even enough for you to begin picking up your dog mess, because the dog wee is also killing the grass I am putting sole effort to keep looking good. You understand what it is I'm saying, don't you?" Don't say it with any tetchiness, but just delivered matter-of-fact. Don't give them 'cause' to become belligerent; they probably will be, but not from your tone. Deliver it 'cold'.

Don't be side-lined or reply to their almost certain deviousness; "My dawg is the only thing I have in my life...", or "I do pick up poos...", just stare at her/them until they stop talking, and repeat the mantra; "Your dog needs to be kept away from this communal utility area..."

Anything other than complete contrition and a promise to keep the dog away, and you get ready to contact your LA and your LegProt. Keep your CCTV going, and report them the instant they repeat the offence.

First, the deeds. And the CCTV purchase. And the pocket one :-)

Do you have Legal Protection in your house insurance? If so, call them up for guidance, too, especially on issues like the shared cost of upkeep.

Your wrong  to assume that the dog is female all dogs male and female can produce urine that causes grass to yellow it's all down to diet plus turf disease can produce the same result

ThisIsWeird

35har1old said:

Your wrong  to assume that the dog is female all dogs male and female can produce urine that causes grass to yellow it's all down to diet plus turf disease can produce the same result

You're wrong about your.  

Thanks - I have to say I was going by our own two dawgs - one male, one fem. Identical diets and everything else. But I stand corrected.

sheramber

In Scotland, a friend was visited by Environmental Health  when a neighbour complained about dog mess lying in my friend's garden. The neighbour could see into the garden.

The mess was there during working hours because his daughter was there for the two dogs but as she was pregnant, he did not want her picking it up  He picked it up when he came home.

He was told there was an old Byelaw that  there could be no more than three messes. Unfortunately, his dogs, as many do, moved  when going, resulting in several small amounts.

Strangely, he was told to let them go on the grass verge opposite his house.


We had occasion to report our neighbour to Environmental Health when their dog was kept in the garden during the day, never walked.and the grass and weeds were knee high.

 We could not enjoy our back garden because of the smell.   

I would add we had three dogs and there was no small from my garden.- confirmed by neighbour on the other side.

EH paid a visit and , with the help of some friends, they filled a skip with at least 20 black bags , cutting dowen the grass and clearing the garden.

They moved out soon after.

user1977

sheramber said:

He was told there was an old Byelaw that there could be no more than three messes.

Told by whom? Sounds like nonsense to me.